Disgusting.

[sourceofpain]

As said above, this game is a shell, a husk, and a mockery of what came before. I LOVED and still love Defenders' Quest 1. This one? It's an ugly hand holding shoddy mess. It looks like everyone who worked on this painted by numbers, wrote by committee, and ignored the source material.

Im refunding this, I expected better.

[Wisp]

It's not as intentionally bad as you make it out to be. Some tragedies happened that rocked the development process, some people needed to be replaced over the years, some things needed to be cut in order to ensure this actually released.

I didn't enjoy my experience with it, but I wouldn't call it an outright mockery. Just some design decisions that didn't pay off.

You can read more about the backstory here: https://www.fortressofdoors.com/defn/

The replacement lead dev getting the game released in a functioning state is itself a miracle, by the sounds of it.

[zephyrean]

Originally posted by Wisp:

It's not as intentionally bad as you make it out to be. Some tragedies happened that rocked the development process

The game was "re-announced" on April 5, 2023[www.fortressofdoors.com].
Nikolas suffered cardiac arrest on October 20 of that year.
The game had been wrecked by the individual credited in the re-announcement long before the tragedy happened.

[Wisp]

What I was saying was that I think if the original dev had stayed on maybe they might not have needed to crunch so hard, file down the edges of what was expected quite so much. Mauve was brought on as a level designer for the project to work alongside Lars.

When Lars stepped away he fully expected the project to collapse. Mauve stepped up from level designer to main dev to ensure it could actually be released in some capacity. It seems unlikely he could have solo'd Lars's entire original vision or plans.

So it doesn't exist without some of the things you come to expect from DQ by intent, but necessity of time, budget and other factors.

You can read my full review of the game in another topic on this forum deeply analyzing DQ1, DQ2 and what happened that we know about. I'm not thrilled by the game, but I can't say there's any malevolence involved in why it is how it is by the people who actively worked on it. Bad things happen to good people and other people are left to pick up the pieces. I can commend Mauve for at least trying to fill Lars's shoes when it doesn't seem as if anyone else would.

It's possible to not like it but understand why it is how it is.

[Bucketoffish]

Is it better than the first? Not really, no. The first has deeper customization and scale, but there are some encouraging and unique design choices that pay off with the heroes and levels that should be commended. When tragedy struck the Dev, most of us knew it was possible the project may not be completed. I am still enjoying my play through, and I will probably go back and play 1.5. My only hope now is a workshop gets enabled, so that fans can give it a proper mods it deserves. I am grateful to the those who stepped up and got this through the finish line.

[GaminGaymn]

Originally posted by sourceofpain:

The ♥♥♥♥ art, the terrible writing, but no. just put up with it, play more. You may need more time to determine if something doesnt deserve your money, but I can figure out out real fast.

You're one of these soft asses who lives on Discord. Weak-ass crybaby culture did a number on you.

[cANe]

This game is certainly a huge disappointment. The game was announced more than 10 years ago so there honestly aren't any excuse to deliver a product that feels worse than the first one in almost every way

[NerdExtrodinare]

Originally posted by cANe:

This game is certainly a huge disappointment. The game was announced more than 10 years ago so there honestly aren't any excuse to deliver a product that feels worse than the first one in almost every way

Do... Do you think they spent 10 years working on it? Dislike it all you want, I don't have particularly high hopes, but the 10 years comment always baffles me.

[Wisp]

I've been following this for a while, but my memory is a bit foggy. I think I can try to explain the timeline for people wondering how this took as long as it did. Nothing nefarious happened behind the scenes. Plenty of indie games take a decade to release through complicating factors - look at Owl Boy, CrossCode, or Secrets of Grindea.

2013 - Sequel is announced with a preorder page.

2014 - Dean Dodrill (Dust: An Elysian Tail) out due to not being able to commit to a multi-year schedule, replaced by Blake Reynolds and Vladimir Gerasimov, who made those fun gifs of all the units and turtle tank you might remember. They were involved for several years (at least until 2016) before leaving with no mention of their departure I could find.

2016 - The first leg of the process of making DQ2 has been to completely remake DQ1 in a new engine as a proof of concept for the engine and also to make DQ1 future-proof. DQ1 was made in Adobe Flash / Adobe AIR, which isn't going to cut it moving forward. You also can't sell a game made in this on consoles. Preorders in part paid for the existence of DQ1HD. While this is done the other people working on the game assemble artwork for the game. During this time period Lars also finds employment at Steam to pay bills, as he does not draw a salary from preorders for his work on DQ2 but rather coasts by on legacy sales of DQ1, heading the Steam Discoverability group to make it far easier for Steam to suggest you games you would be interested in. It's around this time he expresses regret for taking preorders and turns the preorder page off, due to the expectations that it sets. He also offers refunds to anyone who wants one. Realizing the old artwork style is no longer valid or isn't necessary at this stage of the games life, he decides to work on programming the entire game first and then getting an artist to plug in artwork over the WIP assets towards the end of development.

2019? - Mauve is brought on to help with level design.

2022 - Early around this time James Cavin gets hired by Imangi Studios. All his work on DQ2's story essentially needs to be thrown out (EDIT - Correction, his work kept and 'fulfilled' according to interviews, despite not resembling work on the DQ2 blog), Xalavier is brought in with Lars citing how many games he ships a year. Which seems ... good, if you want to get a story down. But (in my opinion) might result in a more shallow world and characters, if someone has a reputation for guaranteeing -something- serviceable can be put into place and shipped before tackling the next thing.

2023 - New art is revealed by Alexander Zelikin's team, including Katie Narsavage who worked on animations and did a fairly decent job trying to animate the character art, even if the animations are rather sparse. Not sure who did character art. Lars had always been wary about relying on a publisher that might compromise his ideals, but he personally knows the people at Armor Games from back in the day and is willing to do whatever it takes to guarantee this game finally comes out. He secures funding to allow himself to work on the game full time, for a dedicated team. Everything is finally going to plan to allow DQ2 to come out.

Late 2023 - Lars experiences a family tragedy and can no longer provide for his family off a game development gig. He expects this to be the end of the game. Mauve refuses to let that happen, steps up to fill his shoes from level designer and carry the game to completion at great personal expense.

Early 2025 - Game releases after Mauve finishes soloing what he can to get the entire thing in a playable state.

tl;dr - Indie dev problems and low cash flow result in game being worked on on top of Lars's day job, people come and go because of commitments and opportunities elsewhere, things change, building an engine and futureproofing DQ1 in HD as a proof of concept take up a few of the early years.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on any details.

[DNLH]

Honestly, my only issue with it as it stands is that it somehow both ended too fast and that there were too many levels that felt like they were there just to have another map. I do like the worldbuilding a lot, though I feel like we are lacking a Librarian in this one, someone who would get exposition dump'd and exposition dump on their own every now and then, I had no idea how many things are supposed to work and only a vague one after finishing the game. I do like the characters, even the ones that are plain annoying or nothingburger for most of their screentime, I enjoy the art, I get how it may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it is consistent and the maps do look amazing due to the setting choice. The story is pretty enthralling, I know that I returned to the game after just finishing a session with it just to see what's around another corner, didn't expect it getting as dark and as real as it does at times, especially near the end.

All in all, it's a solid title, IMO, it just has an unfortunate fate of being attached to Valley of the Forgotten, which it fails to surpass or even match.

[cANe]

Originally posted by NerdExtrodinare:

Originally posted by cANe:

This game is certainly a huge disappointment. The game was announced more than 10 years ago so there honestly aren't any excuse to deliver a product that feels worse than the first one in almost every way

Do... Do you think they spent 10 years working on it? Dislike it all you want, I don't have particularly high hopes, but the 10 years comment always baffles me.

Obviously they didn't spend 10 years of constant development on the game but they were willing to take peoples money and have had more than enough time to make a better product than what we received. Even if they only spent 5, 3 or even 2 years on this we should'nt get something that is pretty much worse than the first game

[Senlin]

Originally posted by Wisp:

2023 - New art is revealed by Alexander Zelikin's team, including Katie Narsavage who worked on animations and did a fairly decent job trying to animate the character art, even if the animations are rather sparse. Not sure who did character art. Lars had always been wary about relying on a publisher that might compromise his ideals, but he personally knows the people at Armor Games from back in the day and is willing to do whatever it takes to guarantee this game finally comes out. He secures funding to allow himself to work on the game full time, for a dedicated team. Everything is finally going to plan to allow DQ2 to come out.

Late 2023 - Lars experiences a family tragedy and can no longer provide for his family off a game development gig. He expects this to be the end of the game. Mauve refuses to let that happen, steps up to fill his shoes from level designer and carry the game to completion at great personal expense.

Early 2025 - Game releases after Mauve finishes soloing what he can to get the entire thing in a playable state.

One thing to add to this timeline is that the game already had an official release date just when the tragedy hit - it was supposed to be published exactly back then, in September 2023 IIRC. Considering that it took another year and almost a half, and the finished product seems to be very meh, it must have been in a terrible state back then in 2023 fall.

It's all really sad. I remember seeing those early art and blog posts about the 2nd game, it seemed it would be so fun. Seeing the reviews (and the price), I haven't even bothered buying it, I don't want to get massively disappointed.

[Frostfeather]

I get that "life happens" and sometimes happens to devs, but this should have just been scrapped.

[Dschinghis Pan]

Originally posted by night4:

I get that "life happens" and sometimes happens to devs, but this should have just been scrapped.

Ok, why? I mean, in the end, it's a functioning indie game with some neat ideas, that just doesn't gully realize it's potential. Nothing new here.

And bringing to an end, is still impressive. Plus people like me, who supported the sequel over a decade ago, still got it for free. Which I have to applaud. Like, that's quite an achievement on it's own, getting the game somehow out of development hell.

It's not the happiest ending of all time, but it is better than Duke Nukem Forever.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Dschinghis Pan:

Originally posted by night4:

I get that "life happens" and sometimes happens to devs, but this should have just been scrapped.

Ok, why? I mean, in the end, it's a functioning indie game with some neat ideas, that just doesn't gully realize it's potential. Nothing new here.

And bringing to an end, is still impressive. Plus people like me, who supported the sequel over a decade ago, still got it for free. Which I have to applaud. Like, that's quite an achievement on it's own, getting the game somehow out of development hell.

It's not the happiest ending of all time, but it is better than Duke Nukem Forever.

It's mediocrity and therefore a complete waste of time. We have *so* much entertainment to choose from that we don't have to settle.

[Dschinghis Pan]

Originally posted by night4:

It's mediocrity and therefore a complete waste of time. We have *so* much entertainment to choose from that we don't have to settle.

Then chose something else? Not every game can be a mind-bending perfection that redefines a genre.