Huge LoK fan, will not be purchasing.

[Biledriver]

Not because it might be woke. Not because it's might be censored.

Do we have to to mine every last cent from every franchise that has ever existed? Can't we just let a beautiful thing that saw its completion die? We do not need this remake, and I do not want any interest drummed up for some sort of ill-conceived sequel. I hate that a comic book written a literal-who is being called 'canon'. I hate that it's not even a remake of the first game; It's a remake of the game they think will make them the most money.

Venmo Michael Bell, Simon Templemen, or Amy Hennig 30 bucks and let this series rest.

[VisciousFishes]

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

Originally posted by Mandril:

wait they are doing AI upscaling now? well if is true then is just a cash grab smh

It does look like it is AI upscaling. It was never confirmed, but it kinda looks like it.

It's not A.I. upscaling. If you look at Malchiah's face, body model and his mask, then there is extra detail that wouldn't come from plain old upscaling like DLSS. The same with the Raziel model. There are extra details on his sleeves and the scarf around his neck. If it was a plain old upscaling like turning 1080p to 4k video footage you wouldn't get all that extra detail. There is much more than just sharpening textures.

All bosses have new models and textures. Kain and Raziel have new models and new textures. Aspyr had access to all the original source code and models, rebuilding what they thought needed it and adding bits that were missing like a skybox.

Here is the Playstation.Blog post that goes into more details:

https://blog.playstation.com/2024/09/24/legacy-of-kain-soul-reaver-1-2-remastered-launches-on-ps5-ps4-dec-10/#:~:text=New%20Hero%20models%20for%20Raziel,the%20original%20pre-rendered%20cutscenes.&text=New%20Enemy%20and%20Boss%20models,bit%20scarier%20than%20I%20remembered

[necromungerx]

Originally posted by American Dove Mitten:

Well actually it’s the fans that have been asking for a proper PC port for what feels like a few decades

So you can’t go we want it and we don’t want it when you actually get it

Also it’s remaster not a remake, it’s the same game underneath with a facelift and I assume missing restored content , maybe

It worked out well for Tomb, so there is no reason to go doomer here

Uh.... I don't know how to tell you this, but the story isn't complete. Legacy of Kain: Defiance doesn't wrap up the story. Not to mention the parasite known as the Elder God is still alive, as well as the Hylden Lord.

[Blitzwing]

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 1&2 Remastered™ simply didn't do its main task.
A Remastered is not simply make game run on modern rigs,
it has to make models, graphics, lighting up to date.


Just compare the models to em Resident Evil Zombies and Dead Space from 2008.

I wonder who did green-light the graphics, they look very dated and cheap.
The protagonist looks like Spider-Man costume.

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by necromungerx:

Originally posted by American Dove Mitten:

Well actually it’s the fans that have been asking for a proper PC port for what feels like a few decades

So you can’t go we want it and we don’t want it when you actually get it

Also it’s remaster not a remake, it’s the same game underneath with a facelift and I assume missing restored content , maybe

It worked out well for Tomb, so there is no reason to go doomer here

Uh.... I don't know how to tell you this, but the story isn't complete. Legacy of Kain: Defiance doesn't wrap up the story. Not to mention the parasite known as the Elder God is still alive, as well as the Hylden Lord.

The story is complete. Kinda.
If you play Blood Omen 2 after Defiance, it kinda ties up the loose ends.

[thegroze]

^ This. Not to mention I don't understand the answer, since neither Coleco_84 nor American Dove Mitten were talking about the story being complete, they were discussing whether we need a remaster and what makes a game a remaster, a remake or a reboot. No one seemed to be arguing about the games' story or how finished it seems to be.

Going back on-topic, even though I don't agree with Biledriver's overall sentiment, I do agree with them on one point: I really don't want a sequel to "tie up loose ends". See, I don't care much about Kain. Kain was shoehorned into a project Amy Hennig wanted to do, Crystal Dynamics basically made her continue the Legacy of Kain series, since they owned the IP, and she did. She had envisioned Raziel and the basics of the story she wanted to tell long before she got to work on LoK (Shifter was the name of this pre-Soul Reaver concept), all she did was adapt that. As far as she's concerned, since she finished the Raziel arc and that part of the story is done, she's through with Legacy of Kain. And, well, if I'm not getting a new game in the series with some involvement by Amy Hennig, I'm not interested in it. I'm not particularly interested in Kain, like I said, and Raziel is now fully combined with the spirit reaver, living inside Kain's physical Soul Reaver for eternity, so my interest in whatever some new person could come up with for a new entry in the series is just not there. Kain could rot, for all I care, and the couple of loose ends don't really bother me.

I *do* want these remasters to happen, though. Mostly because I want new fans to enjoy the games. Not really because of the graphics, but due to gameplay improvements, which were a huge barrier for people who wanted to get into these games, and now they can use their niffty Xbox/PlayStation/Switch controllers, they can properly play using keyboard+mouse while (hopefully) the movement and action in-game becomes more fluid and responsive. As for any continuity to come from "good enough sales numbers" (no one really knows what companies and studios consider "good enough sales numbers" to be), I don't care and, in all honesty, I don't want them, unless they bring Amy Hennig back and, preferably, tell a new story where I still get to play as Raziel instead of cutting myself shaving in front of a screen just by looking at all of Kain's EDGE.

[Coleco_84]

You could arguee the whole franchise is about Kain, but the protagonist is Raziel...a parallel I made for decades is that Kain is basically Anakin while Raziel is Luke, which is probably a call Amy made back when she was handed the IP, and she made the right call; Kain works A LOT better as the antagonist (not the "villain", keeping the Star Wars analogy, the Elder God would be Palpatine, the real villain manipulating the whole thing).
With the exception of one minor detail, I think Kain's story was done by the end of Defiance, and Raziel's story DEFINETELY was done by the end of Defiance.

[ThusVoiD]

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

I think Kain's story was done by the end of Defiance, and Raziel's story DEFINETELY was done by the end of Defiance.

True.

A smart sequel would be Legacy of Kain: Something New
The game begins as another character, other than Kain and Raziel.

Continuing directly as either Kain or Raziel would be complete fanfic nerdgasm writing. The stories are tied up neatly, untying them is hard to justify.

[Layla Spellwind]

Originally posted by thusvoid:

Continuing directly as either Kain or Raziel would be complete fanfic nerdgasm writing. The stories are tied up neatly, untying them is hard to justify.

Tell me you've never played defiance without telling me you've never played defiance.

[thegroze]

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

You could arguee the whole franchise is about Kain, but the protagonist is Raziel...a parallel I made for decades is that Kain is basically Anakin while Raziel is Luke, which is probably a call Amy made back when she was handed the IP, and she made the right call; Kain works A LOT better as the antagonist (not the "villain", keeping the Star Wars analogy, the Elder God would be Palpatine, the real villain manipulating the whole thing).
With the exception of one minor detail, I think Kain's story was done by the end of Defiance, and Raziel's story DEFINETELY was done by the end of Defiance.

Awesome analogy with Star Wars, the whole Anakin/Darth Vader as Kain, Luke as Raziel, Palpatine as the Elder God parallel makes complete sense to me. See?, this is why I want new people to get into this series, these games. I really enjoy learning something new that I never thought about for all the (very long) time I've been playing and enjoying the series, and having new people with new perspectives is a great opportunity to engage in new discussions and we might learn a thing or two, like I just did with your Star Wars comparison, which looks so obvious, makes so much sense, but I had never thought of it before you brought it to my attention.

I guess I wouldn't mind the "Legacy of Kain: Something New" with (a) new main character(-s) but, for now, I'm just happy we're getting this remake. Hopefully, a Defiance remake comes down the line, I don't even care if they leave the graphics as they are, since I think the game aged pretty good, graphically and artistically speaking, but it could definitely do with a gameplay overhaul, as the fixed camera angles never felt great to begin with (and it's the worst of the Raziel trilogy, if you're playing on PC and don't have a gamepad. It honestly plays like crap on keyboard+mouse, let alone keyboard only -- which is the way I've been playing it since 2003*).

*- I bought it on launch, my PC at the time didn't even have a GPU that could run it, as it didn't support hardware T&L

[ThusVoiD]

Originally posted by Layla Spellwind:

Tell me you've never played defiance without telling me you've never played defiance.

You believe that, don't you?

Kain running around with an inaccessible Raziel would make for an extremely one dimensional experience. Bringing Raziel out makes his final act meaningless.

[VisciousFishes]

Originally posted by Biledriver:

I presumed they'd redone the models for main characters, but the the textures are seemingly just AI upscaling. If that's not the case when it releases, my apologies. However, my point still stands. It's not gatekeeping or whatever the other nerds have thrown around, I'm perfectly happy to have new Legacy of Kain fans. I am not, however, satisfied by new people flooding in and giving the impression that there's a renewed interest which will inevitably lead to a new entry in the series. I do not want a new entry in the series. You don't either, you guys just aren't thinking about the ramifications of what happens if there is.

Don't ever presume what I do and do not want. You presume too much to entertain having a conversation with you. You make an ass of you and me when you assume.

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by thegroze:

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

You could arguee the whole franchise is about Kain, but the protagonist is Raziel...a parallel I made for decades is that Kain is basically Anakin while Raziel is Luke, which is probably a call Amy made back when she was handed the IP, and she made the right call; Kain works A LOT better as the antagonist (not the "villain", keeping the Star Wars analogy, the Elder God would be Palpatine, the real villain manipulating the whole thing).
With the exception of one minor detail, I think Kain's story was done by the end of Defiance, and Raziel's story DEFINETELY was done by the end of Defiance.

Awesome analogy with Star Wars, the whole Anakin/Darth Vader as Kain, Luke as Raziel, Palpatine as the Elder God parallel makes complete sense to me. See?, this is why I want new people to get into this series, these games. I really enjoy learning something new that I never thought about for all the (very long) time I've been playing and enjoying the series, and having new people with new perspectives is a great opportunity to engage in new discussions and we might learn a thing or two, like I just did with your Star Wars comparison, which looks so obvious, makes so much sense, but I had never thought of it before you brought it to my attention.

I guess I wouldn't mind the "Legacy of Kain: Something New" with (a) new main character(-s) but, for now, I'm just happy we're getting this remake. Hopefully, a Defiance remake comes down the line, I don't even care if they leave the graphics as they are, since I think the game aged pretty good, graphically and artistically speaking, but it could definitely do with a gameplay overhaul, as the fixed camera angles never felt great to begin with (and it's the worst of the Raziel trilogy, if you're playing on PC and don't have a gamepad. It honestly plays like crap on keyboard+mouse, let alone keyboard only -- which is the way I've been playing it since 2003*).

*- I bought it on launch, my PC at the time didn't even have a GPU that could run it, as it didn't support hardware T&L

I think the world of Nosgoth is very interesting for a potential sequel with a new protagonist, in fact, wasnt that the premise of the cancelled sequel? Still, not sure, will love to return to this world, as long as Amy is writting, but...I dont know, the fact that 90% of the cast either died or retired in these 20 years, means new voices actors, and new voice actors is a big NO for me.

[thegroze]

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

I think the world of Nosgoth is very interesting for a potential sequel with a new protagonist, in fact, wasnt that the premise of the cancelled sequel? Still, not sure, will love to return to this world, as long as Amy is writting, but...I dont know, the fact that 90% of the cast either died or retired in these 20 years, means new voices actors, and new voice actors is a big NO for me.

My feelings exactly. I would like a sequel, on the conditions that Ms. Hennig returns as director, or at least as writer (which, let's be honest, isn't likely) and that the VO cast reprises their roles -- pretty much an impossibility, since a considerable part of them are either dead or retired.

I'm really not looking forward to a new Legacy of Kain entry with a main character voiced by Troy Baker with a script by... whomever may be writing game scripts, these days? Chris Avellone? Is that dude still relevant? Whatever, I'm not looking forward for any sequel to this series if the original team (director, producers, voice actors) aren't on board.

[Biledriver]

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

Originally posted by thegroze:

Awesome analogy with Star Wars, the whole Anakin/Darth Vader as Kain, Luke as Raziel, Palpatine as the Elder God parallel makes complete sense to me. See?, this is why I want new people to get into this series, these games. I really enjoy learning something new that I never thought about for all the (very long) time I've been playing and enjoying the series, and having new people with new perspectives is a great opportunity to engage in new discussions and we might learn a thing or two, like I just did with your Star Wars comparison, which looks so obvious, makes so much sense, but I had never thought of it before you brought it to my attention.

I guess I wouldn't mind the "Legacy of Kain: Something New" with (a) new main character(-s) but, for now, I'm just happy we're getting this remake. Hopefully, a Defiance remake comes down the line, I don't even care if they leave the graphics as they are, since I think the game aged pretty good, graphically and artistically speaking, but it could definitely do with a gameplay overhaul, as the fixed camera angles never felt great to begin with (and it's the worst of the Raziel trilogy, if you're playing on PC and don't have a gamepad. It honestly plays like crap on keyboard+mouse, let alone keyboard only -- which is the way I've been playing it since 2003*).

*- I bought it on launch, my PC at the time didn't even have a GPU that could run it, as it didn't support hardware T&L

I think the world of Nosgoth is very interesting for a potential sequel with a new protagonist, in fact, wasnt that the premise of the cancelled sequel? Still, not sure, will love to return to this world, as long as Amy is writting, but...I dont know, the fact that 90% of the cast either died or retired in these 20 years, means new voices actors, and new voice actors is a big NO for me.

Originally posted by thegroze:

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

I think the world of Nosgoth is very interesting for a potential sequel with a new protagonist, in fact, wasnt that the premise of the cancelled sequel? Still, not sure, will love to return to this world, as long as Amy is writting, but...I dont know, the fact that 90% of the cast either died or retired in these 20 years, means new voices actors, and new voice actors is a big NO for me.

My feelings exactly. I would like a sequel, on the conditions that Ms. Hennig returns as director, or at least as writer (which, let's be honest, isn't likely) and that the VO cast reprises their roles -- pretty much an impossibility, since a considerable part of them are either dead or retired.

I'm really not looking forward to a new Legacy of Kain entry with a main character voiced by Troy Baker with a script by... whomever may be writing game scripts, these days? Chris Avellone? Is that dude still relevant? Whatever, I'm not looking forward for any sequel to this series if the original team (director, producers, voice actors) aren't on board.

Sounds like you boys talked yourselves into my original point.

[lazarusblack]

Originally posted by thusvoid:

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

I think Kain's story was done by the end of Defiance, and Raziel's story DEFINETELY was done by the end of Defiance.

True.

A smart sequel would be Legacy of Kain: :re3stars: Something New :re3stars:
The game begins as another character, other than Kain and Raziel.

Continuing directly as either Kain or Raziel would be complete fanfic nerdgasm writing. The stories are tied up neatly, untying them is hard to justify.

You seem to have misunderstood the narrative.

The last game, chronologically, is Defiance, where we are left on the cliffhanger, with Kain having been purified, but the true enemy of Vampire kind having been revealed. We don't get the resolution to that story, nor do we get a resolution to the fates of the Pillars, the Vampire race or Kain himself.

The events of Defiance follow on as a consequence of the events in Blood Omen 2. Blood Omen 2 is slap bang in the middle of the chronology.