Skill Cancel and Guard/Dash Question

[FlamboyantMongoose]

1. what exactly does the skill cancel do? i didnt have any "skills" vis a vis "special moves" at the point i got it, so i tried using it to cancel out of normal and strong attacks, but it seemed like the reduction was the same as just stopping the attacks

that would also imply you could guard cancel out of normal/strong attacks, but i didnt try that

it also seemed as if using the skill cancel only worked once and then there was a cooldown regardless of the number of attacks

2. i have no problem with the dash being a quarter-circle (rolls were the same in muramasa; although it felt a lot better with that small analog stick), but what does annoy me is it seems that you cannot guard into a dash

am i doing something wrong or can you seriously not guard into a dash? i really hope that gets patched in if it is not possible yet

[myhr2]

1. Skill cancels are charges that you can spend by pressing the "skill" key (down by default). It makes you dive to the down direction, makes you invicible for something like a second, and interrupts and resets all your combos.

By pressing the right or left direction just after the "skill" button, you can add a little dash effect to your Skill cancel, that also allow you to pass trough ennemies.

Skil cancels refill naturally in a few seconds. But hitting an enemy, be it with a weapon, a spell, or an assist, will stop this regeneration.

2. You don't really need to guard into a dash, because you're already invicible.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

i want to take your word for it that there is an effective cooldown reduction from using a skill cancel, but then you say i don't need to guard into a dash even though it is DEFINITELY a common ability in combat engines similar to this game and DEFINITELY very useful/helpful

[myhr2]

Cooldown reduction? I don't understand, I was saying that Skill cancels have a cooldown, that's all. I never talked about a cooldown reduction.
By the way, you regenerate your Skill cancels faster in Focus mode, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

And again, guarding into a dash isn't usefull because you're already invicible during your dash. Maybe you mean dashing then guarding? That is totally allowed. I don't really understand what your grip is.

[dog]

So what myhr2 means is, it resets your combo. For example, if you just spam a sequence of buttons in the game, you do a certain combo/attack. Once that combo is over, your combo is over. If you want longer combos, you have to mix other things in, like magic and finishers, crew assists.

But if you want to keep attacking and keep that combo going with attacks, you do a skill cancel, which resets your combo. This is very common in fighting games where certain characters have guard cancels that let them chain different combos together.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

so my original point was that it seemed that the skill cancel was working the same as relenting on attacks and was just in general behaving counter-intuitively, but if it is truly working the way you are saying then i must just be not noticing the timing difference

also if the skill cancel works the way as advertised does that mean i can also dash-cancel since the dash is derived from the generic skill cancel in this game? i will have to give that a try

also please address if i seriously cannot guard into a dash
i can guard into a roll in muramasa and guard into an evade in sengoku basara 3 and it is frustrating for me that i keep attenpting guarding into a dash by instinct and failing
i know i cannot guard into a dash in sengoku basara 3 or muramasa but that is because the dash is a true dash in those games
in this game it is more like an "ukemi" if that makes sense so it is quite common and useful to guard into an ukemi in games with similar combat engines to this one (i now recall you can also do it in fairy bloom freesia and i could probably start a list)

i started using the d-pad instead of the analog stick since i got the feeling that the analog was just having 4 or 8 way mapped onto it and it felt way better for using the dash
anyone complaining about the dash should probably use the d-pad
i never had a problem with down being the skill cancel button because that feels intuitive, but it would be cool if the stomp came with a downward attack intrinsic to it since that would be useful for safely coming out of air juggles

but yeah: i dont want to load you down with combat engine requests when really the biggest frustration is not being able to guard into a dash

edit: ignore the incorrect reference to ukemi; i must have played viewitiful joe recently
what i really meant is the move in games where you evade through an attack, like what you can in muramasa, samurai shodown 6, fairy bloom freesia, etc. as an extension of the evade move when timed correctly and precisely

[dog]

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

so my original point was that it seemed that the skill cancel was working the same as relenting on attacks and was just in general behaving counter-intuitively, but if it is truly working the way you are saying then i must just be not noticing the timing difference

also if the skill cancel works the way as advertised does that mean i can also dash-cancel since the dash is derived from the generic skill cancel in this game? i will have to give that a try

also please address if i seriously cannot guard into a dash
i can guard into a roll in muramasa and guard into an evade in sengoku basara 3 and it is frustrating for me that i keep attenpting guarding into a dash by instinct and failing
i know i cannot guard into a dash in sengoku basara 3 or muramasa but that is because the dash is a true dash in those games
in this game it is more like an "ukemi" if that makes sense so it is quite common and useful to guard into an ukemi in games with similar combat engines to this one (i now recall you can also do it in fairy bloom freesia and i could probably start a list)

i started using the d-pad instead of the analog stick since i got the feeling that the analog was just having 4 or 8 way mapped onto it and it felt way better for using the dash
anyone complaining about the dash should probably use the d-pad
i never had a problem with down being the skill cancel button because that feels intuitive, but it would be cool if the stomp came with a downward attack intrinsic to it since that would be useful for safely coming out of air juggles

but yeah: i dont want to load you down with combat engine requests when really the biggest frustration is not being able to guard into a dash

Well I'm not the dev, just a friend, but I can pass any suggestions over to them. I've never tried guarding into a dash. So I don't have much insight on that.

And yes doing a skill-cancel-dodge also resets your combo.

I use analog and I don't seem to have much issue. But the skill-cancel button can be rebinded in the options for anyone having issues.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

please note my edit due to incorrect reference to the ukemi
also i said i think the skill cancel button works well, but i am aware some people are complaining

so if i can dash cancel then that is awesome and i need to practice that some

looking forward to getting some finishers (unless you are referring to those special moves in focus mode) and working magic into the combos also since that can give extra time for the cancels to regenerate

regarding the reason for guarding into a dash or any evade move: it is very useful to me as a baiting technique that can be followed with a swift counter-attack; i use it often and it almost always is available so i just became frustrated when i could not do it in this game

[Fel]

I personally mapped the "skill cancel" to an other button (Left trigger, I think), and it's way easier to use it that way, especally for evades and dashes, because you can keep pushing your direction at the same time.

As for finishers, they are indeed those special "focus" moves that you can equip, you learn more as you progress through the game.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

Originally posted by Fel:

I personally mapped the "skill cancel" to an other button... because you can keep pushing your direction at the same time.

As for finishers, they are indeed those special "focus" moves that you can equip, you learn more as you progress through the game.

that is a pretty good reason to remap the cancel, and i still have the lb free for simul-pressing with attacks and assist
i remapped guard to lt already and since i apparently cannot guard into a dash it is fine staying at lt

i keep forgetting about focus mode because it only comes up during bosses and then i am usually concentrating on other stuff and never use the focus

[myhr2]

Some builds heavily rely on Focus mode to shine (Agi builds for instance). That being said, you can cancel-dash when you're pushing a direction, and, at least for me, it's quite easy to go in a direction, pushinf said direction on the analogic stick, and then do a little "down" input to dash without breaking my movement.

Also, about the way skill cancel charges regenerate : casting a magic in the middle of your combo will not give you more time for this regeneration. Quite the opposite! Because as long as you hit an ennemy, your skill cancel can't regenerate. You need to stop hitting things for a few seconds, perhaps using this time to cast one or two buff, before your charges are available.

[Darth Vladi]

I find curious how no one noticed there is a bug with the Skill Cancel. I dont know how or why, but today skill cancel only worked ONCE and then not working again until i enter another area.

I think this is what happened to the creator of this thread. It just didnt work more than once per screen.

[myhr2]

Could you be more specific about this bug? Does it happen in an empty screen, or in the middle of a fight? Also, how many charges have you unlocked?

[Herbalacious]

Skill cancel is a little tricky to learn, but you will get the hang of it by simply playing the game more. It grants you a second of invulnerability and you can dash thru your enemies using this. For me personally, it's more effective than blocking and I use it in all my builds a lot. My favorite build (5 skill cancels) takes advantage by going behind your target and backstabbing for huge damage. With that build, I play as Wyatt using the bow/dagger so no blocking for me anyway.

As for skill cancels, you can get by the game without worrying about it too much except for a few 'puzzles' to get chests, but it won't stop your progress thru the game if you prefer the block approach. I do recommend using it lots so you get the feel for it. It's one of those things where it's easy to learn, but tricky to master. I've never tried using it while blocking. Blocking pretty much stops everything you are doing. You still take partial damage, unless you have the appropriate skill/weapon depending who you are playing with.

As for a buggy skill cancel that Darth Vladi mentioned, I've never had the issue and I've finished the game many, many times. I've never remapped the key tho so maybe that has something to do with it?

Anyways, just keep at it you'll get used to it.

[Epic The Incandescent]

skill cancle on the ground is very very useful, go pick up the agi armor(idr the names atm) I have 4 skill dashes with it, makes many bosses and eneimes very easy to fight ON THE GROUND, not so much in the air as the skill "dash" is just a striaght rocket down and that will kill your time and or patients if you do it over a clif trying to avoid some annoying baddie who can stuck lock the piss out of you via long range bs. please devs pleas let us use angeled downward dashes atleas if you wont listen to my request for a airal recovery -_-