Automap

[Sammy]

Do you think we'll ever get a patch or a mod for a proper map system?

[Abscondrel]

no. it is just so easy now, compared to the original. exploring and dumapic work great. the game puts in map tricks to confuse players. that confusion is part of the game. a complete modern mapping overhaul would ruin it.

also, the devs are gone. this game is finished.

this would be the part where a dev corrects me....

[Wizardsmana]

I would not be opposed to giving players the option to have an auto map like Wizardry 7 or 8 that they could choose to turn on or off.
But like abscondrel mentioned, I think it is already too easy right now with the mini map and dumapic combined. Plus with so many ways to find maps online today, I'd be surprised if this is a top priority for the devs right now. But an option to turn the mini map off while also having an option to auto map would be welcome in my book if it gave more players choices of how to play the game.
For me, good old fashioned graph paper and managing dumapic spells wisely is part of the fun!

[Ninth Hour]

I don't mind additional options for new players but as someone who never liked mapping games manually, even as a kid, I didn't have an issue. It's not difficult to memorize all the routes that are relevant to you.

The floors are actually simpler than one might think. After several runs on the SNES (which doesn't even have an ambient map function), I learned Floors 1, 2, 4, 9, and 10 by heart.

I memorized Floor 7 in this version, which is the original one. I don't recommend using the SNES map, which is needlessly complicated and isn't even rewarding (does not have a Fire Dragon that you can farm for items).

While I haven't memorized 8, it's just two closed loops forming the initials of the designers (again, if using original maps). You can't get lost there.

And floor 3 is a hassle because of all the pit traps but so irrelevant to the game that you will never need to revisit it except to complete your identification of monsters only found on that floor (if the Got to Catch 'Em All achievement is relevant to you). Floors 5 and 6 are similarly irrelevant.

Finally, it is almost a certainty that, when you play long enough, you will find a Jeweled Amulet, which allows you cast Dumapic without limit. Refreshing your automap is therefore no big challenge.

[Madd Overlord]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

I memorized Floor 7 in this version, which is the original one. I don't recommend using the SNES map, which is needlessly complicated and isn't even rewarding (does not have a Fire Dragon that you can farm for items).

Ninth - Actually you can. Very easily, in fact. My second party I created (lawful party) I selected the option for the SNES maps. I took your recommendation on farming the dragon and I farm it on Level 7 very easily.

1. Teleport from stairs down to Floor 7 in front of door to Dragon (10N, 5E, 6D).
   
2. Enter room.
   
3. Battle Fire Dragon.
   
4. Disarm/Open Chest and collect loot.
   
5. Bags Full?
   
   1. Yes - Teleport up 6 floors and exit maze.
      
   2. No - Continue to Step 6
6. Take one step forward in the room.
   
7. Save/Exit to Title Screen.
   
8. Re-launch the game.
   
9. Step backwards onto the Dragon's mark.
   
10. Go back to Step 3.

[DanAmrich_DE]

The automap in the game is a concession to modern expectations but still adheres to the shifting and intentionally confusing nature of the maze, per the original design. So if it's not always 100% reliable...that's working as intended. :)

[rn_archl0rd]

If you get hit with a spinner you can cast dumapic or exit to title and enter back to reset in correct perspective. once you get the jeweled amulet all the dumapics are free and your priest doesn't use up his spell points on that spell tier

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by Madd Overlord:

Ninth - Actually you can. Very easily, in fact. My second party I created (lawful party) I selected the option for the SNES maps. I took your recommendation on farming the dragon and I farm it on Level 7 very easily.

1. Teleport from stairs down to Floor 7 in front of door to Dragon (10N, 5E, 6D).
   
2. Enter room.
   
3. Battle Fire Dragon.
   
4. Disarm/Open Chest and collect loot.
   
5. Bags Full?
   
   1. Yes - Teleport up 6 floors and exit maze.
      
   2. No - Continue to Step 6
6. Take one step forward in the room.
   
7. Save/Exit to Title Screen.
   
8. Re-launch the game.
   
9. Step backwards onto the Dragon's mark.
   
10. Go back to Step 3.

I just tested those coordinates on the SNES and got only a random encounter beyond the door. No Fire Dragon. I Loaded State multiple times and, on occasion, didn't even get an encounter. Whatever is beyond isn't fixed. You don't even get a chest from the fight, since it it isn't considered a Room Battle.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3270526792
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3270527157
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3270527605

Moving further into the room, there is nothing else of interest other than a corner that teleports you elsewhere.

Maybe the SNES map in this adaptation was altered?

[Madd Overlord]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

Originally posted by Madd Overlord:

Maybe the SNES map in this adaptation was altered?

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were describing but I can confirm that the steps I provided work with the SNES Maps on the Digital Eclipse version of Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord.

Here's the map of the 7th floor and location of the Fire Dragon on the map:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3270579575


Here's a quick link to a YouTube video I uploaded showing me run through the sequence in the game:

https://youtu.be/mTcEvyribt4?si=e5kqwFAlRTdlJLeY


Hopefully this helps for those wanting to farm the Fire Dragon for loot in the DE version of the game using the SNES alternate maps.

[Madd Overlord]

Originally posted by DanAmrich_DE:

The automap in the game is a concession to modern expectations but still adheres to the shifting and intentionally confusing nature of the maze, per the original design. So if it's not always 100% reliable...that's working as intended. :)

https://youtu.be/0VkrUG3OrPc?si=jhaLCwRIezfE5_a-

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by Madd Overlord:

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were describing but I can confirm that the steps I provided work with the SNES Maps on the Digital Eclipse version of Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord.

Here's the map of the 7th floor and location of the Fire Dragon on the map:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3270579575


Here's a quick link to a YouTube video I uploaded showing me run through the sequence in the game:

https://youtu.be/mTcEvyribt4?si=e5kqwFAlRTdlJLeY

Yes, those are exactly the same coordinates that I tested on the SNES. The map is identical (it even shows the teleporter in the northeast corner of the room) but the addition of the Fire Dragon is original to this adaptation.

In the actual SNES version, there is no dragon in that room (or on the entire floor for that matter) . There isn't even a fixed Room Battle, just a random encounter that yields no chest. I had simply assumed that Digital Eclipse would have kept the encounters on that floor faithful to the console. But, in the interest of "fairness", it does make sense for them to include the dragon in both versions.

It's actually an incentive to play this Remaster over the SNES version, as the only way to grind for top level gear in the latter is to run through Floor 10 ad nauseum.

[vorik]

Originally posted by Wizardsmana:

I would not be opposed to giving players the option to have an auto map like Wizardry 7 or 8 that they could choose to turn on or off.
But like abscondrel mentioned, I think it is already too easy right now with the mini map and dumapic combined. Plus with so many ways to find maps online today, I'd be surprised if this is a top priority for the devs right now. But an option to turn the mini map off while also having an option to auto map would be welcome in my book if it gave more players choices of how to play the game.
For me, good old fashioned graph paper and managing dumapic spells wisely is part of the fun!

i read this and thought dumapic was a new app. :picardfacepalm: oof. lmao. I'm too used to APAR in Bard's Tale, since after PGMO+KoD+LoL-fearing my uber characters via save disk swap cheat in 4 and beating 5, I imported my characters into BT and kinda never looked back.

Automap in Bard's Tale 3 was such a godsend, but i may have also duplicated maps manually for notes.

BurgerBecky also added automap to the Bard's Tale Trilogy ports for Bard's Tale (2004) (and there's an android version of 2004 AND Trilogy!) and a slightly tweaked engine version of Trilogy for Bard's Tale 4. I can't believe how much it helped me get back into Trilogy, and not having to worry modern times of digging out graph paper. I still have all my original maps though, but they are in boxes in storage somewhere.