On level up - Point buy or Random?

[ChubbiChibbai]

Which is the better option to chose here?
I know different people will have different opinions. I'd love to hear them.

My first ever play through of this game with no prior experience.
I am using modern settings but with Random Roll on for new character gen (so i can roll at least a 20)

For level up, to me the random attribute looks better than a random number of points i can assign myself...... or does it.....is one going to really screw me over later?

[delerium76]

point buy is definitely better. Random will actually remove stat points based on "age" which is really dumb, because once I had it remove 3 stats and my character is only 22 years old (or in VIM, it was like 96%). With point buy, you are always going up in stats.

[ChubbiChibbai]

Woah.
Ok that's good to know lol.

[ChubbiChibbai]

Oh actually also what's better Vim or Age?

[Ninth Hour]

It depends on whether you plan to savescum, what your current stats look like, and what you are planning to accomplish with your character.

1) If you don't ever plan to change character class: point-buy. Random attributes can, in theory, give you more stat points, as you may be able to get +1 in 5 to 6 stats. But you can also randomly lose 1 in 3 to 4 stats (which I've actually seen happen).

Without class change considerations, you will definite have enough increases with point buy (even if you roll a 1) to cover all your primary stats. This is especially true if you already started with 18+ Attribute points on character generation.

Also, if you are not changing classes, only a few stats need focus. In this case, it is better to raise those few stats by +2 to +3 rather than have +1 gains spread out to potentially useless stats.

2) Switching to an Elite class, save-scumming allowed: Random for several levels and then point-buy. Because you get reset to racial average stats and Elite classes like Lords, Samurais, and Bishops have multiple primary stats (sometimes 4 or 5 of them) , you can accomplish this by setting stat gain to Random and then savescumming until you get a +1 across 4 to 6 stats.

Once you have a good spread (between levels 8 to 10), you can then switch to point-buy to focus your points on the stats you want to max out. This combination of Random Allocation and Point Buy allows you, by level 13, to recoup most of the stats you lost upon class change.

3) Switching to an Elite class, no save-scumming allowed: Point-buy. It may be painful, since there are many stats you want to build, but your odds of raising the ones you want is better than if you use Random, which may actually decrease the ones you want to raise. Without savescumming, you need better control over your stat increases.

4) Switching to standard class, no save-scumming: Point-buy. The case is even stronger here, since you depend on fewer stats and benefit from a tighter focus on the ones that matter.

5) If you want a challenge: Random attribute points on character generation with no rerolls. Random allocation on level up, no save scumming, You may end up with a very lopsided character. You could also end up with a great one. For those who are willing to give themselves up to Fate.

[WRuddick]

Point buy is always better just because the stat cap is only 18 and people will start maxing out stats really early and you get to choose which ones they are

[ChubbiChibbai]

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

It depends on whether you plan to savescum, what your current stats look like, and what you are planning to accomplish with your character.

1) If you don't ever plan to change character class: point-buy. Random attributes can, in theory, give you more stat points, as you may be able to get +1 in 5 to 6 stats. But you can also randomly lose 1 in 3 to 4 stats (which I've actually seen happen).

Without class change considerations, you will definite have enough increases with point buy (even if you roll a 1) to cover all your primary stats. This is especially true if you already started with 18+ Attribute points on character generation.

Also, if you are not changing classes, only a few stats need focus. In this case, it is better to raise those few stats by +2 to +3 rather than have +1 gains spread out to potentially useless stats.

2) Switching to an Elite class, save-scumming allowed: Random for several levels and then point-buy. Because you get reset to racial average stats and Elite classes like Lords, Samurais, and Bishops have multiple primary stats (sometimes 4 or 5 of them) , you can accomplish this by setting stat gain to Random and then savescumming until you get a +1 across 4 to 6 stats.

Once you have a good spread (between levels 8 to 10), you can then switch to point-buy to focus your points on the stats you want to max out. This combination of Random Allocation and Point Buy allows you, by level 13, to recoup most of the stats you lost upon class change.

3) Switching to an Elite class, no save-scumming allowed: Point-buy. It may be painful, since there are many stats you want to build, but your odds of raising the ones you want is better than if you use Random, which may actually decrease the ones you want to raise. Without savescumming, you need better control over your stat increases.

4) Switching to standard class, no save-scumming: Point-buy. The case is even stronger here, since you depend on fewer stats and benefit from a tighter focus on the ones that matter.

5) If you want a challenge: Random attribute points on character generation with no rerolls. Random allocation on level up, no save scumming, You may end up with a very lopsided character. You could also end up with a great one. For those who are willing to give themselves up to Fate.

Thanks
This was very helpful

[ChubbiChibbai]

Originally posted by WRuddick:

Point buy is always better just because the stat cap is only 18 and people will start maxing out stats really early and you get to choose which ones they are

Yeah that cap is pretty low. Especially if you are starting our with a roll of at least 20.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by WRuddick:

Point buy is always better just because the stat cap is only 18 and people will start maxing out stats really early and you get to choose which ones they are

I agree except in the point that Ninth Hour made here:

Originally posted by Ninth Hour:

2) Switching to an Elite class, save-scumming allowed: Random for several levels and then point-buy. Because you get reset to racial average stats and Elite classes like Lords, Samurais, and Bishops have multiple primary stats (sometimes 4 or 5 of them) , you can accomplish this by setting stat gain to Random and then savescumming until you get a +1 across 4 to 6 stats.

Once you have a good spread (between levels 8 to 10), you can then switch to point-buy to focus your points on the stats you want to max out. This combination of Random Allocation and Point Buy allows you, by level 13, to recoup most of the stats you lost upon class change.

Switching classes reverts you back to base stats, so you lose that "roll of at least 20" making it harder to get back to normal stats for that class. This will probably only matter on classes like Lord and Samurai if you are trying to make one man killing machines by training the opposite spell casting class first (Mage then Lord, or Cleric then Samurai). When you do this, you'll have way too many important stats to care about. Str, Vit, and Agi for fighting, Int and Pie for casting spells, and Luck is always useful.

Any other class and it probably won't matter, even Thief to Ninja would really only care about 4 stats: Str, Vit, Agi, and Luck.

Going mage to cleric or cleric to mage doesn't require any high stats as they just exchange one spell casting stat for the other.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by delerium76:

Switching classes reverts you back to base stats, so you lose that "roll of at least 20" making it harder to get back to normal stats for that class. This will probably only matter on classes like Lord and Samurai if you are trying to make one man killing machines by training the opposite spell casting class first (Mage then Lord, or Cleric then Samurai). When you do this, you'll have way too many important stats to care about. Str, Vit, and Agi for fighting, Int and Pie for casting spells, and Luck is always useful.

Any other class and it probably won't matter, even Thief to Ninja would really only care about 4 stats: Str, Vit, Agi, and Luck.

Going mage to cleric or cleric to mage doesn't require any high stats as they just exchange one spell casting stat for the other.

Well said. This was exactly my situation and why I had to revert to Random gain. I had converted a level 13 Cleric to Samurai and a level 13 Mage to Lord.

In both cases, there were too many stats to raise just through point-buy alone. Even using the method I described, I could not max out everything when my Samurai and Lord reached level 13 but at least all their important stats (Strength, Vitality, Agility, and Piety for Lord, Strength, Vitality, Agility and Intellect for Samurai) were at 17 or 18 while luck was around 11+.