The upper limit of experience is too low.

[ナイトメア]

The maximum of 20,000,000 is not enough.
Please make it more. I would love to hear the developer's opinion as to why they chose that limit.

[Hattori]

no single player crpg should have any limits when it comes to power.IF i want to grind hard to be overpowered let me

[ナイトメア]

AS of [Ver 1.0.1 04.10.24]

[Robin_WH]

I agree, there should be no cap.

[Abscondrel]

+1 vote, no cap.

[Wizardsmana]

Was there a cap in the original 1981 release? I honestly don't know even though I played it like crazy. If the devs did cap it from the original, they definitely should have left it alone. If not, the no cap would be a nice option at least.

[Kiln]

It's the cap because that was the cap in the original AppleII version.
This is still running on the same base, but honestly- Werdna is beatable with a 12th level party there's no reason to have a massive cap.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by ナイトメア:

The maximum of 20,000,000 is not enough.
Please make it more. I would love to hear the developer's opinion as to why they chose that limit.

"Not enough"? In practice, the recommended level at which to confront Werdna would be level 12 to 13, which could be anywhere between 200,000 to 400,000 XP.

It already takes forever to reach those levels. Consider that with a full party of 6, an average battle even on the 10th floor will give you around 2000 to 3000 XP (often less). There are very few high XP monsters in this game. It is only battles with giants and Will O' Wisps that give you significantly more and those encounters are typically few and far between (unless you find a way to save scum encounter generation).

To reach level 24, you need around 3 to 4 million XP. The average person will burn out long before they ever complete the thousand+ fights in the 10th floor, required to achieve that amount, let alone 20 million- especially given how slow combat runs in this iteration of the game.

And why would anyone bother? That is way, way past the level you require to master the game.

You might die of old age before your characters do.

If you're not convinced of the staggering amount of time required, let's try to do the math.

Assume that you start the game with six level 1 characters and want to level all the way up to 20 million XP.

Even if you were able to consistently generate 2000 XP per fight (which will never happen since you have to start your grind on floors where the average encounter XP is lower), it would take you 10,000 fights to reach your goal.

Assume that each fight takes only 5 minutes to complete (again, not likely to be consistent, given how long combat animations take and how many enemies can be thrown at you), that would be 50,000 minutes or 833 hours.

And this is under ideal conditions that will never happen, as it does not take into account travel time between floors, travel time back to the town, the time it takes you to level up your characters, the time it takes to recover from fights (healing, resurrection, recharging spell slots, etc). And if you save scum to get better results, for level up or to avert negative events, that is even more time.

So let's say we double the amount of time to take into account recovery between fights, general maintenance activities, leveling time, and the slow progression that all low level characters would face on the first few floors. You are looking more in the neighborhood of 1600+ gaming hours to achieve the level cap. Even this is probably an optimistic estimate. And those hours will be spent on tedious and repetitive processes- is this really how you want to waste your days? I don't know about you, but I have better and more rewarding things to do with my limited time on this Earth.

[ナイトメア]

Please forgive my poor English.

My current experience is about 11,800,000. This is what I have been playing since pre-leasing and I saw a report on Twitter that 20,000,000 is the max.

I remember that the pre-release cap was 10,000,000 and this was reached very early.
My experience playing wizardry was on an NEC PC-9801 and the LV limit was at least 3 digits higher. If the Apple2 version had such an upper limit, I posted this text in the hope that the developers would explain it to me.

In addition, as a way to shorten the playing time, after defeating the Room Guardians and displaying the money, select "Quit Title Menu" and restart "Select Save Data", you will be returned to the state you were in when the battle with the Room Guardians ended, before entering the door of the Room Guardians, and you can fight again. This is repeated to explore the equipment.


Is the main goal of this game to defeat Werdna?
I think not.

I think it's about going into the dungeon because it's there, finding equipment, and playing until you're satisfied with yourself.

LV is only an indicator, but I believe it can be a certain amount of fun.

Thanks.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by ナイトメア:

My current experience is about 11,800,000. This is what I have been playing since pre-leasing and I saw a report on Twitter that 20,000,000 is the max.

Now I am in intrigued. How long did it take you reach that amount of XP?

Originally posted by ナイトメア:

In addition, as a way to shorten the playing time, after defeating the Room Guardians and displaying the money, select "Quit Title Menu" and restart "Select Save Data", you will be returned to the state you were in when the battle with the Room Guardians ended, before entering the door of the Room Guardians, and you can fight again. This is repeated to explore the equipment.

I understand. All the data from that battle is saved even if you reload on the reward screen. But on what floor can you do this comfortably? Because any damage you take and any spells you used up is also saved. It may be a good way to reload the room for another battle but you will still be worn down, especially if you are on the 10th floor.

But this might be the only efficient way to grind for loot.

[ナイトメア]

After writing the article, I was doing laps of the 10F while also doing other work. it had increased to 11,900,000 so I could probably earn about 100,000 in about 20 minutes net.

[ナイトメア]

If you "Quit Title Menu" and and restart "Select Save Data". All room guardians in that tier will be restored, so there is a way to go around all the rooms.
In this case, you will not get bored and can play leisurely while doing other work.

[Abscondrel]

you can also defeat werdna excessively repetitiously.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

Originally posted by Kiln:

It's the cap because that was the cap in the original AppleII version.
This is still running on the same base, but honestly- Werdna is beatable with a 12th level party there's no reason to have a massive cap.

In the original apple ii version, the bishop exploit would give the bishop 100,000,000 exp. That said, this game is nowhere near that.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

Originally posted by ナイトメア:

Please forgive my poor English.

My current experience is about 11,800,000. This is what I have been playing since pre-leasing and I saw a report on Twitter that 20,000,000 is the max.

I remember that the pre-release cap was 10,000,000 and this was reached very early.
My experience playing wizardry was on an NEC PC-9801 and the LV limit was at least 3 digits higher. If the Apple2 version had such an upper limit, I posted this text in the hope that the developers would explain it to me.

In addition, as a way to shorten the playing time, after defeating the Room Guardians and displaying the money, select "Quit Title Menu" and restart "Select Save Data", you will be returned to the state you were in when the battle with the Room Guardians ended, before entering the door of the Room Guardians, and you can fight again. This is repeated to explore the equipment.


Is the main goal of this game to defeat Werdna?
I think not.

I think it's about going into the dungeon because it's there, finding equipment, and playing until you're satisfied with yourself.

LV is only an indicator, but I believe it can be a certain amount of fun.

Thanks.

The game didn't end for me after Werdna when I played on the apple II. I took my characters to very high levels, did a lot of multi classing, and had smaller parties. I stopped playing this new version once I found out about the stupid level cap they imposed on it.

[Ninth Hour]

Originally posted by ナイトメア:

After writing the article, I was doing laps of the 10F while also doing other work. it had increased to 11,900,000 so I could probably earn about 100,000 in about 20 minutes net.

I just don't get it. People talk about grinding to extremely high levels on floor 10 but I just don't see how you can do so within a reasonable amount of time.

Even when reloading after every successful room battle, to "reset" for a new encounter, leveling progress is EXTREMELY slow.

All my characters are level 12 now and require between 100,000 to 150,000 XP to reach the level 13 but most encounters generated, as mentioned, only give you between 800 to 1800 XP on average, with a full party of 6.

Often, you spawn just 1 to 3 creatures, Sometimes you spawn several creatures like Dragon Zombies or level 10 Mages that will just wipe you out or damage you heavily, making it difficult for you to sustain the grind. Even a few Master Ninjas will invariably ruin your day.

And none of these encounters, dangerous as they are, yield much XP.

The best streak I had was a few Will O Wisps back to back but this was an extremely rare occurrence. And the slow and unskippable animations don't really help things either.

I have no idea how anyone could get "100,000 XP" in "20 minutes". I can't get even 5000 XP in that timeframe (at least not consistently). I welcome any wisdom on this matter.

I suspect that a better way to grind for XP may be to reduce your party size to 3 and then fight the practically unlimited battles on floor 4, which are less dangerous and may yield more average XP than with full party on floor 10. And the variety they offer would be more interesting than grinding Murphy's ghost on level 1 ad nauseum.

Floor 10 seems to only be good for grinding items, not levels.