Reminder that this is not a real Final Fantasy game

[Taka]

This is some Western character action game that is wearing the skin of the Final Fantasy series. Go play a good FF game instead, like 6, 7, 9 or 10.

[Foulcher]

FFIX was not really a come back to FF roots in my opinion, that’s a misconception. It was very original and different.
Every PSX FF is a masterpiece and in my opinion they are closer to each other than they are to any other FF.

They play like narrative adventure games with purely magnificent static backgrounds.

[MJAndre]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Foulcher:

FFXII and FFXIII were overall ATB-based
Movement in FFXII was an illusion
Same on XIII
That’s why they are actually inferior than bare-static ATB because they are boring on the long run (and at core they are just castrated system).

You only programmed your allies and that’s all

Anyway I do not care that much about battle system, whatever good and fitting is Ok for me. But FFXV one was somewhat fun but awful.
The main issue is that their action games are not very great on this side.

FFX is one of the only real turn-based (ATB is not turn based) and this was amazing. Very close to Lost Odyssey. Order was so important and I liked the very various design of bosses to make it less boring.

I don’t like people telling us that there is a « natural evolution » towards action. There is no such thing in gameplay.

The biggest issue and fault of turn-based systems is locking in actions and then being royally ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over when they backfire and you can't change. You just have to watch, you can't change tactics, you can't defend or dodge out of the way, or say if Reflect is cast, it'll bounce something you don't want it to.. Turn-based is a VERY flawed system.

[The Ultimate Despair]

Oprindeligt skrevet af MJAndre:

Oprindeligt skrevet af The Ultimate Despair:

FF9 was Sakaguchi's last game and it was a pure throwback and a final look at classic FF.

Not only was this entire post fantastically well said, but the irony of people whining about "bringing back FF's roots" and complaining about modern FF is that... FFIX was SEVERELY underrated and forgotten. I really wish I were joking, but after VII was criticised for "not being Nintendo, not being medieval fantasy, not being pixel sprites", FFVIII was criticised for being "too realistic/modern, not fantasy"... And then FFIX... "TOO MEDIEVAL FANTASY".
I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WISH I were joking. But FFIX was criticised for not being modern/scifi, being too cheesy generic medieval fantasy, when it was the most Final Fantasy the series could be... But it's the black sheep of the PS1 trio.

Exactly. Sakaguchi put so many hidden references and stuff in his magnum opus as well. It deserved a lot more recognition.

And by all means, people can like or dislike anything. My entire post wasn't trying to diss anyone. But at the same time, if someone does not truly understand a series and how it was evolving, how can that person judge what IS, in fact, that game series supposed to be like?

[MJAndre]

Oprindeligt skrevet af ----:

true, newer final fantasy games have lost their way

Final Fantasy has NEVER had a "way". Inherently not how the series has ever been developed.

[The Ultimate Despair]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Amaterasu:

Oprindeligt skrevet af The Ultimate Despair:

I cannot stand these people who act as if modern Final Fantasy wasn't 'real' Final Fantasy.

It's illogical. Modern Final Fantasy is definitely not playing like the PS1/PS2 era and under, but that is absolutely the logical progressive path the series has been taking.

FF1 started as a D&D inspired game.
FF2 started introducing stronger plot elements and systems to favor storytelling with the 'keyword' system.
FF3 started introducing cinematic moments.
FF4 is where the sauce has fully taken in terms of story and gameplay. While aslo attempting to actively engage players more by adding bosses where you didn't only spam the A button with your strongest moves. Also the early staged of an ATB system.
FF5 did all of what FF4 did, but also improved on the jobs system.
FF6 is the absolute culmination of everything I just said.

Then enter the PS1 era.
FF7. Now CDs were used as a media. Full blown cinematics an a far deeper story than FF6 were the big star. Gameplay was dialed back to turn based for sure.
FF8 massively improved on character models and overall visuals with attempts to innovate game systems, failed or success is highly personal opinion territory.
FF9 was Sakaguchi's last game and it was a pure throwback and a final look at classic FF.

FFX had a massive graphical leap, so did cinematics. The biggest focus however was clearly on actively engaging with the turn based system via the rotational characters each with their specific strenghts. And the sphere grid system that changed rpg customization forever so far.
FF11 is an MMO so we will keep it out.
FF12 was the first complete transition to action based, under the guise of turn based. Their first attempt with usage of AI companions and they went a bit too far with it in the gambit system.

FF13 was all it's faults, was again, attempting to go full on action but also couldn't quite dish the turn based roots behind due to long term fans.
FFXV's biggest issue wasthe dev hell, but again, massive focus on story, cinematics and action.

See a pattern here?

FF1 is literally a Dragonlance campaign.

Oh, absolutely. It was a great game for that time period, heck, I still think it is a great game now!

[panthera uncia]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Whamu:

Oprindeligt skrevet af nowak™:

Reminder that Final Fantasy VII is not a real Final Fantasy game. Final Fantasy is not modern day sci-fi ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Go play a good FF game instead, like II or III.

Reminder that Final Fantasy II and III is not a real RPG. Go play a good RPG game instead, like Dragon Warrior for the Famicom.

lmao

tbh I wouldn't be surprised if this argument dates back to final fantasy ii, considering how radically different it is in scope, tone and gameplay compared to the original, and how much it lifted from star wars

[MJAndre]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Foulcher:

FFIX was not really a come back to FF roots in my opinion, that’s a misconception. It was very original and different.
Every PSX FF is a masterpiece and in my opinion they are closer to each other than they are to any other FF.

They play like narrative adventure games with purely magnificent static backgrounds.

Sakaguchi himself has literally stated, as Jesse Cox did in the video I linked, that FFIX is *objectively* a love letter swansong to the series past, in order for the series to further evolve and go take higher risks.

[Elevna]

Remember guys: thou who feed thy clown award farmer, be as much thy clown as the poster.

[The Ultimate Despair]

Oprindeligt skrevet af MJAndre:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Foulcher:

FFIX was not really a come back to FF roots in my opinion, that’s a misconception. It was very original and different.
Every PSX FF is a masterpiece and in my opinion they are closer to each other than they are to any other FF.

They play like narrative adventure games with purely magnificent static backgrounds.

Sakaguchi himself has literally stated, as Jesse Cox did in the video I linked, that FFIX is *objectively* a love letter swansong to the series past, in order for the series to further evolve and go take higher risks.

I know of that interview, and I absolutely agree with what Sakaguchi said. It's alright to evolve and change. It is also perfectly fine to not be able to keep loving something that changes. Final Fantasy never had a definite formula. Heck, they always tried to innovate because the RPG genre has that insane potential to evolve.

[Foulcher]

What was better for me on PSX FF and that I only found on Mistwalker games (especially Lost Odyssey) is that you could explore villages and cities and discover many things by talking to NPCs etc.
The big world map with optional location.
FFVIII nailed had a lot of it.

That’s not exclusive to FF however, many many games ditched this design.
Like The Witcher (only 1 had this). I also play Baten Kaitos and I spend time taking to people to discover quests and info that are not that formal.

[The Ultimate Despair]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Elevna:

Remember guys: thou who feed thy clown award farmer, be as much thy clown as the poster.

Tbh, I found at least one other like-minded individual, so that post had some value in that sense lmao

[MJAndre]

Oprindeligt skrevet af The Ultimate Despair:

Oprindeligt skrevet af MJAndre:

Not only was this entire post fantastically well said, but the irony of people whining about "bringing back FF's roots" and complaining about modern FF is that... FFIX was SEVERELY underrated and forgotten. I really wish I were joking, but after VII was criticised for "not being Nintendo, not being medieval fantasy, not being pixel sprites", FFVIII was criticised for being "too realistic/modern, not fantasy"... And then FFIX... "TOO MEDIEVAL FANTASY".
I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WISH I were joking. But FFIX was criticised for not being modern/scifi, being too cheesy generic medieval fantasy, when it was the most Final Fantasy the series could be... But it's the black sheep of the PS1 trio.

Exactly. Sakaguchi put so many hidden references and stuff in his magnum opus as well. It deserved a lot more recognition.

And by all means, people can like or dislike anything. My entire post wasn't trying to diss anyone. But at the same time, if someone does not truly understand a series and how it was evolving, how can that person judge what IS, in fact, that game series supposed to be like?

No, I wasn't criticising you for proclaiming anything about liking/disliking things, you put it objectively and succinctly. Hell, I enjoyed FFXIII (XIII-2 way more though, XIII admittedly has pacing issues, but seriously deep, strong touching emotional storylines like Sazh with his son or Fang/Vanille's bond, arguably more important than Lightning and Serah's whole story), but you really nailed the evolution well.

[MJAndre]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Foulcher:

What was better for me on PSX FF and that I only found on Mistwalker games (especially Lost Odyssey) is that you could explore villages and cities and discover many things by talking to NPCs etc.
The big world map with optional location.
FFVIII nailed had a lot of it.

That’s not exclusive to FF however, many many games ditched this design.
Like The Witcher (only 1 had this). I also play Baten Kaitos and I spend time taking to people to discover quests and info that are not that formal.

Again, that only does so much. A lot of that is wholly unnecessary, what people proclaim modern games having "filler". It was filler, literally.

[Foulcher]

Oprindeligt skrevet af MJAndre:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Foulcher:

FFIX was not really a come back to FF roots in my opinion, that’s a misconception. It was very original and different.
Every PSX FF is a masterpiece and in my opinion they are closer to each other than they are to any other FF.

They play like narrative adventure games with purely magnificent static backgrounds.

Sakaguchi himself has literally stated, as Jesse Cox did in the video I linked, that FFIX is *objectively* a love letter swansong to the series past, in order for the series to further evolve and go take higher risks.

Well he can say that but that does not mean that it’s real when you play it. I do not tell you that he lies, but this is how he pictures FF in his head.
FFVII and VIIi did not ditched everything from the past too.

Narrative is a lot more intense from FVII and FFIX is not an exception, overall pacing and gameplay was a lot closer to FFVII and FFVIII than any NES/SNES.

I love FFIX but it’s a far more cinematographic game as PSX FF than any 2D ones.
And I just completed FFV + FFVI months ago.

[The Ultimate Despair]

Oprindeligt skrevet af MJAndre:

Oprindeligt skrevet af The Ultimate Despair:

Exactly. Sakaguchi put so many hidden references and stuff in his magnum opus as well. It deserved a lot more recognition.

And by all means, people can like or dislike anything. My entire post wasn't trying to diss anyone. But at the same time, if someone does not truly understand a series and how it was evolving, how can that person judge what IS, in fact, that game series supposed to be like?

No, I wasn't criticising you for proclaiming anything about liking/disliking things, you put it objectively and succinctly. Hell, I enjoyed FFXIII (XIII-2 way more though, XIII admittedly has pacing issues, but seriously deep, strong touching emotional storylines like Sazh with his son or Fang/Vanille's bond, arguably more important than Lightning and Serah's whole story), but you really nailed the evolution well.

Honestly, FF13 had some great qualities to it IMO. I think that visually, artistically and musically, it was a masterpiece.
The story while.. quite all over the place at moments, was pretty solid.
My biggest issue with XIII (at least the first iteration of it) was how they couldn't quite decide to go action or turn based, and that just made for such a weird battle system that could have been IMO a masterpiece.
That and it takes far too long for us to have a say in the party composition, although I understand they went that route to properly set up all the characters and their personal motivations.