Best Combat Ever

[Bob]

I have to say, this game might have the most satisfying combat I have ever experienced in a video game, my goodness. The ability to dodge literally everything and do direct counters with skills that dosnt need frame perfect button presses is just so. DAMN. GOOD!

Sorry, this is a positive post about the game, I know they arnt allowed here in the brainrot depths of the steam forums but damn, I had to express myself and no one is awake at these ungodly hours that I have found myself in after a sesh.

[qsdww]

+1
Also don't sleep on parry, it takes time to master but the bonus is huge: Cooldown your abilities faster, slow down time and increase your damage.
Tips to parry: At first I think you have to time your attack the moment enemies hit you but actually the key to performs it is quite different, you only need to make Clive attacks collide with enemies physical attack then parry will come out.

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by Bob:

I have to say, this game might have the most satisfying combat I have ever experienced in a video game, my goodness. The ability to dodge literally everything and do direct counters with skills that dosnt need frame perfect button presses is just so. DAMN. GOOD!

Sorry, this is a positive post about the game, I know they arnt allowed here in the brainrot depths of the steam forums but damn, I had to express myself and no one is awake at these ungodly hours that I have found myself in after a sesh.

If you're casual then it's not surprising (nothing wrong with being casual). You also don't put your stats anywhere so you literally cannot break your build. You can do easy dodges, interesting parries and square/hold square/square+cross/triangle/hold triangle attacks, so you don't need to learn anything or remember lot of combos. But your main damage mostly comes from 6+3 active skills. So that's pretty simple, though in the end, when you set your main skills it's get repetitive pretty fast.
It would be strange hearing that from a person who played some good action games though.

[Dagný]

You need to play more games then.

[minisith]

Originally posted by Dagný:

You need to play more games then.

Originally posted by Hanzo:

Originally posted by Bob:

I have to say, this game might have the most satisfying combat I have ever experienced in a video game, my goodness. The ability to dodge literally everything and do direct counters with skills that dosnt need frame perfect button presses is just so. DAMN. GOOD!

Sorry, this is a positive post about the game, I know they arnt allowed here in the brainrot depths of the steam forums but damn, I had to express myself and no one is awake at these ungodly hours that I have found myself in after a sesh.

If you're casual then it's not surprising (nothing wrong with being casual). You also don't put your stats anywhere so you literally cannot break your build. You can do easy dodges, interesting parries and square/hold square/square+cross/triangle/hold triangle attacks, so you don't need to learn anything or remember lot of combos. But your main damage mostly comes from 6+3 active skills. So that's pretty simple, though in the end, when you set your main skills it's get repetitive pretty fast.
It would be strange hearing that from a person who played some good action games though.

What are your Good games?
Skyrim? Assasins Creed? Mortal Kombat?

Some of those games has really bad combat. And all of them are repetitive.

[Driblex™]

I wouldn't say it is the best combat, but it is a very good and fun combat system. The open world combat is good enough but the game sings in boss fights. Tinkering around with different abilities and items are also fun.

In all my playtime I was never really bored with the combat.

[Elazul]

It's only fun with the big bosses and Eikon fights. The trash mobs are boring AF.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Hanzo:

If you're casual then it's not surprising (nothing wrong with being casual). You also don't put your stats anywhere so you literally cannot break your build. You can do easy dodges, interesting parries and square/hold square/square+cross/triangle/hold triangle attacks, so you don't need to learn anything or remember lot of combos. But your main damage mostly comes from 6+3 active skills. So that's pretty simple, though in the end, when you set your main skills it's get repetitive pretty fast.
It would be strange hearing that from a person who played some good action games though.

There are definitely some deficiencies, mainly with how slow/long some of the longer special attacks are (but they are also completely optional, and take up slots that could be filled with abilities that have more utility). But getting repetitive? This game actually has a fantastic endgame compared to most other action games (even dmc series) alongside a fantastic training mode area.

If you don't like DMC though, I don't think its your kind of game. its all about the freedom to do what you want, limited only by your own skill, there is almost infinite replayability in this, depending on how much you want to engage with it.

If anything, the more 'casual' players who are more attracted to the typical action games (especially those that have more souls-like combat, as much as I hate to use that phrase) are the ones who would dislike this game, as this kind of depth just goes straight over their heads as they aren't implicitly forced to use the mechanics, its on them to learn it. Combine that with how these kind of action games typically structure the difficulty where they provide a ridiculous amount of tools to you, in an easy scenario so you can slowly learn the tools, meanwhile other action games have a small amount of tools, and force you to use all of them.

Personally, what makes me play this over dmc4/5, is the mix of the magic burst, and torgal timing and how that influences enemy knockback/launches. its incredibly addictive getting really good at combo'ing while using torgal simultaneously, like a mix of dante, nero sword revving, and neros devil bringer punches all at the same time which is ridiculous.

[Krypto]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

Originally posted by Hanzo:

If you're casual then it's not surprising (nothing wrong with being casual). You also don't put your stats anywhere so you literally cannot break your build. You can do easy dodges, interesting parries and square/hold square/square+cross/triangle/hold triangle attacks, so you don't need to learn anything or remember lot of combos. But your main damage mostly comes from 6+3 active skills. So that's pretty simple, though in the end, when you set your main skills it's get repetitive pretty fast.
It would be strange hearing that from a person who played some good action games though.

There are definitely some deficiencies, mainly with how slow/long some of the longer special attacks are (but they are also completely optional, and take up slots that could be filled with abilities that have more utility). But getting repetitive? This game actually has a fantastic endgame compared to most other action games (even dmc series) alongside a fantastic training mode area.

If you don't like DMC though, I don't think its your kind of game. its all about the freedom to do what you want, limited only by your own skill, there is almost infinite replayability in this, depending on how much you want to engage with it.

If anything, the more 'casual' players who are more attracted to the typical action games (especially those that have more souls-like combat, as much as I hate to use that phrase) are the ones who would dislike this game, as this kind of depth just goes straight over their heads as they aren't implicitly forced to use the mechanics, its on them to learn it. Combine that with how these kind of action games typically structure the difficulty where they provide a ridiculous amount of tools to you, in an easy scenario so you can slowly learn the tools, meanwhile other action games have a small amount of tools, and force you to use all of them.

Personally, what makes me play this over dmc4/5, is the mix of the magic burst, and torgal timing and how that influences enemy knockback/launches. its incredibly addictive getting really good at combo'ing while using torgal simultaneously, like a mix of dante, nero sword revving, and neros devil bringer punches all at the same time which is ridiculous.

I prefer this game to DMC or Ninja Gaiden due to enemies having much better telegraphed attacks and your attacks working as intended, which isn't the case with the flying swallow move in Ninja Gaiden where RNG would determine whether it lands or not. I can't think of a single attack that isn't dodgeable, and only a few that can't be countered with heatwave for ranged and raging fists/rook's gambit for melee.

Beat an S rank level 45 boss at level 38 last night purely due to how fair the attack telegraphing and pattern consistency was.

Great design all around.

[Hanzo]

Originally posted by minisith:

Originally posted by Dagný:

You need to play more games then.

Originally posted by Hanzo:

If you're casual then it's not surprising (nothing wrong with being casual). You also don't put your stats anywhere so you literally cannot break your build. You can do easy dodges, interesting parries and square/hold square/square+cross/triangle/hold triangle attacks, so you don't need to learn anything or remember lot of combos. But your main damage mostly comes from 6+3 active skills. So that's pretty simple, though in the end, when you set your main skills it's get repetitive pretty fast.
It would be strange hearing that from a person who played some good action games though.

What are your Good games?
Skyrim? Assasins Creed? Mortal Kombat?

Some of those games has really bad combat. And all of them are repetitive.

Repetitive is not the only problem. The battle lacks depth. You just use your skills and wait for CD. That's all. Even FF15 with lot of weapons have a better, more deep mechanics

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

There are definitely some deficiencies, mainly with how slow/long some of the longer special attacks are (but they are also completely optional, and take up slots that could be filled with abilities that have more utility). But getting repetitive? This game actually has a fantastic endgame compared to most other action games (even dmc series) alongside a fantastic training mode area.

If you don't like DMC though, I don't think its your kind of game. its all about the freedom to do what you want, limited only by your own skill, there is almost infinite replayability in this, depending on how much you want to engage with it.

If anything, the more 'casual' players who are more attracted to the typical action games (especially those that have more souls-like combat, as much as I hate to use that phrase) are the ones who would dislike this game, as this kind of depth just goes straight over their heads as they aren't implicitly forced to use the mechanics, its on them to learn it. Combine that with how these kind of action games typically structure the difficulty where they provide a ridiculous amount of tools to you, in an easy scenario so you can slowly learn the tools, meanwhile other action games have a small amount of tools, and force you to use all of them.

Personally, what makes me play this over dmc4/5, is the mix of the magic burst, and torgal timing and how that influences enemy knockback/launches. its incredibly addictive getting really good at combo'ing while using torgal simultaneously, like a mix of dante, nero sword revving, and neros devil bringer punches all at the same time which is ridiculous.

DMC have a lot of combos with more weapons. Mastering those weapons and switching them is much harder that here (not even comparable). I'm not sure how your endgame is fun. Do you switch your eikon abilities? Probably not. Probably you set several eikons that you like with low CD like Odin/Leviathan and that's it. You put several additional abilities that you can switch to combo and that's it.
Developers even didn't bother with making your own build, just giving you same values for every level up. Heck, game doesn't even have elemental damage difference. What are we talking about here?
EDIT: Dude, you have 17 hours, what endgame are you talking about?

[MaChao]

Well, taste differs.
I'm absolutely happy that you like it, but for someone with action game experience, FF16's combat system is as deep as a puddle and has very little to offer.
It's certainly not bad, but it's a far cry from "the best ever".

It offers virtually no opportunities for player expression (limited core moveset), there's no real statistical depth (attack types, elementel weaknesses ect) and most gained abilities are very simple damage sources without much utility.

Again, there's nothing wrong with liking it, absolutely more power to you.
And i can absolutely see how it's flashy presentation and ease of use can appeal to a casual player.
But that's really it, it appeals to a casual player and leaves anyone with even slightly more experience with very little to actually play around with.

It's a very straight forward, very linear and very rigid combat system.
Absolutely servicable, but a far cry from good as far as i'm concerned.

[CzUSMC]

I agree this games combat is crazy good. It gets way better after you unlock all your powers but it starts out slow at the beginning of the game when you're not at your full potential yet...

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by CityWidePrism:

I agree this games combat is crazy good. It gets way better after you unlock all your powers but it starts out slow at the beginning of the game when you're not at your full potential yet...

Even at the beginning of the game with just clive's normal fire abilities, and torgal etc. this game has a lot more going on and a lot more depth than many other typical 'action' games.

[Dagný]

Originally posted by MaChao:

Well, taste differs.
I'm absolutely happy that you like it, but for someone with action game experience, FF16's combat system is as deep as a puddle and has very little to offer.
It's certainly not bad, but it's a far cry from "the best ever".

It offers virtually no opportunities for player expression (limited core moveset), there's no real statistical depth (attack types, elementel weaknesses ect) and most gained abilities are very simple damage sources without much utility.

Again, there's nothing wrong with liking it, absolutely more power to you.
And i can absolutely see how it's flashy presentation and ease of use can appeal to a casual player.
But that's really it, it appeals to a casual player and leaves anyone with even slightly more experience with very little to actually play around with.

It's a very straight forward, very linear and very rigid combat system.
Absolutely servicable, but a far cry from good as far as i'm concerned.

Good post but IMO there is a lot wrong with liking it. Devs will think this is what gamers want and as a result we'll get even more braindead hack and slash games in the near future.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by MaChao:

Well, taste differs.
I'm absolutely happy that you like it, but for someone with action game experience, FF16's combat system is as deep as a puddle and has very little to offer.
It's certainly not bad, but it's a far cry from "the best ever".

It offers virtually no opportunities for player expression (limited core moveset), there's no real statistical depth (attack types, elementel weaknesses ect) and most gained abilities are very simple damage sources without much utility.

Again, there's nothing wrong with liking it, absolutely more power to you.
And i can absolutely see how it's flashy presentation and ease of use can appeal to a casual player.
But that's really it, it appeals to a casual player and leaves anyone with even slightly more experience with very little to actually play around with.

It's a very straight forward, very linear and very rigid combat system.
Absolutely servicable, but a far cry from good as far as i'm concerned.

It offers virtually no opportunities for player expression? are you joking? the core moveset alone, has far more freedom of expression than the majority of typical action games out there now. Just look at stellar blades core moveset and what that offers in enemy control and mobility verse this game? sadly the bar is incredibly low, but even compared to the base moveset of characters in DMC, ff16 has a substantial amount of utility.

Almost every single ability you unlock has utility with how it moves you and the enemy and affects their condition in different ways (knockback/stagger etc.). Combine this with what torgal offers and you have an incredibly robust toolset that gives players a huge playground to explore and learn in. A significant amount of moves are more or less just ripped from DMC in some form, which is perfectly fine when they encapsulate the general movement/control you want in a game like this.

A key thing that sets these kind of games apart from others is that it doesn't have depth from difficulty. in this case to a fault it is easy on purpose so that you aren't bombarded with a bajillion moves and need to learn all of them just to survive, it gives you the opportunity to ease in and start learning how you can use your moves. Its about accessibility, allowing everyone to be able to play through it how they want, without having to learn every single mechanic on offer.

Other games force you to learn their relatively shallow mechanics, which means to casual players, it can seem more deep because if they ignore things they die.

Your statement is basically the complete opposite of the truth, this game is an exceptional action game for hardcore players, providing some of the most engaging and intense mechanics to craft insane combos that these types of games have on offer, and for casual players it provides the accessibility to allow them to mindlessly hack and slash through.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Hanzo:

Originally posted by minisith:

What are your Good games?
Skyrim? Assasins Creed? Mortal Kombat?

Some of those games has really bad combat. And all of them are repetitive.

Repetitive is not the only problem. The battle lacks depth. You just use your skills and wait for CD. That's all. Even FF15 with lot of weapons have a better, more deep mechanics

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

There are definitely some deficiencies, mainly with how slow/long some of the longer special attacks are (but they are also completely optional, and take up slots that could be filled with abilities that have more utility). But getting repetitive? This game actually has a fantastic endgame compared to most other action games (even dmc series) alongside a fantastic training mode area.

If you don't like DMC though, I don't think its your kind of game. its all about the freedom to do what you want, limited only by your own skill, there is almost infinite replayability in this, depending on how much you want to engage with it.

If anything, the more 'casual' players who are more attracted to the typical action games (especially those that have more souls-like combat, as much as I hate to use that phrase) are the ones who would dislike this game, as this kind of depth just goes straight over their heads as they aren't implicitly forced to use the mechanics, its on them to learn it. Combine that with how these kind of action games typically structure the difficulty where they provide a ridiculous amount of tools to you, in an easy scenario so you can slowly learn the tools, meanwhile other action games have a small amount of tools, and force you to use all of them.

Personally, what makes me play this over dmc4/5, is the mix of the magic burst, and torgal timing and how that influences enemy knockback/launches. its incredibly addictive getting really good at combo'ing while using torgal simultaneously, like a mix of dante, nero sword revving, and neros devil bringer punches all at the same time which is ridiculous.

DMC have a lot of combos with more weapons. Mastering those weapons and switching them is much harder that here (not even comparable). I'm not sure how your endgame is fun. Do you switch your eikon abilities? Probably not. Probably you set several eikons that you like with low CD like Odin/Leviathan and that's it. You put several additional abilities that you can switch to combo and that's it.
Developers even didn't bother with making your own build, just giving you same values for every level up. Heck, game doesn't even have elemental damage difference. What are we talking about here?
EDIT: Dude, you have 17 hours, what endgame are you talking about?

I've got about 300 hours on ps5, spending most of my time in the training mode, alongside doing the ultimaniac difficulty which is fantastic imo, and I think its much nicer than DMD and the equivalent hardest difficulties in many other action games.

Most of the time I just theorycraft and play around with interesting combos, or limiting the eikons I have available in different ways and see what I can do. I just haven't played much on PC because im waiting to upgrade, and getting used to using the mod that lets you swap eikons like styles/have more dmc like controls to see how it is.