FF XVI is beaten by turn based RPG Metaphor: ReFantazio

[Bigboss PC Faster]

Is it time for Final Fantasy to stop pampering mainstream audience and return to turn based RPG?

[moshiwakeda]

FF16 sold 3x more on a single console compared to what what Refantazio sold on all platforms combined, on the first day.

[alumlovescake]

I love turn based games but Final Fantasy has almost never gotten it right besides once

[iameatingjam]

Yeah I dunno if I'll like that game. I don't really like persona, but a big reason for that I think was its setting, I mean modern day tokyo how boring plus fighting in... dreamworld? I don't know. The whole thing seemed kinda stupid to me (sorry to persona fans)

But if you took something similar and put it into an epic fantasy story, perhaps I could get into it. I'll give the demo a try at some point. But the price is so high. After tax it will be like a hundred maple dollars. I don't think I'll be paying that either way....

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Metaphor is persona 6 and it rules

Came out of nowhere for me.
.That's where it's at now, for the real jRPg lovers.

[MrSoul]

People getting desperate in this clown economy

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

The dream of the jRPg is alive in metaphor re fantazio.

Enjoy your DMC quasi clone though

[Amvorn]

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Metaphor is persona 6 and it rules

Came out of nowhere for me.
.That's where it's at now, for the real jRPg lovers.

:er_uwu:

No Persona 6 is currently in development. Atlus never will shy away from starting a new IP based on or as a spin off of another. Which is a good thing or else "Persona" as a franchise would never have existed.

[Xengre]

OP, I know you're learning to count late in life but remember 3 is larger than 1, so Metaphor has not out performed FFXVI yet.

Originally posted by Amvorn:

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Metaphor is persona 6 and it rules

Came out of nowhere for me.
.That's where it's at now, for the real jRPg lovers.

:er_uwu:

No Persona 6 is currently in development. Atlus never will shy away from starting a new IP based on or as a spin off of another. Which is a good thing or else "Persona" as a franchise would never have existed.

If only they would better support their existing series, like Growlanser which they basically never actually promoted so hardly anyone knows they exist. A real shame.

[Xaphnir]

Originally posted by alumlovescake:

I love turn based games but Final Fantasy has almost never gotten it right besides once

V, VI, VII, X and X-2 all have great turn-based combat systems

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Xaphnir:

Originally posted by alumlovescake:

I love turn based games but Final Fantasy has almost never gotten it right besides once

V, VI, VII, X and X-2 all have great turn-based combat systems

I think they may mean the issue of how Final Fantasy turn based combat systems lack proper depth/strategy and due to overwhelmingly poor balance always, always..., collapse on themselves.

One of the biggest issues is there is almost always skills/attacks and equipment so clearly blatantly broken it can't be realistically missed unless you go "ooo big flashy summon must be good, ignore other stuff" or something.

Examples of stuff so grossly busted it obliterates game balance in the series:

Basic attack / Heal loops, pretty much guaranteed win with no strategy 99% (literally) of the time.

Almost none of the games use a meaningful elemental system so just blow your strongest attacks regardless (except FF9, basically), and I don't mean that once in a blue moon it can absorb fire or something exception.

FF6: Literally too many things are broken to even bother.


FF7: HP Plus, Big Guard, Beta/Aqualung/Magic Breath, Barrier, Choco/Mog and Limit Seal Evil (because a boss that never attacks is not a threat), easy disc 1 access to lv3/4 limits on characters with barely any grinding (just a couple of minutes). None of this requires thought it is just "wow" that is F'in busted!!! HP Plus & Big Guard/Barrier coupled basically result in essentially immortality against all but Emerald/Ruby Weapon, and both can be easily gotten in disc 1 without difficulty. Lv3/4 limit breaks are no thought required instant kill almost every boss in the game... Beta (Aqualung if you miss superior Beta)/Magic Breath severely out perform Level 1/2 Limits, Summons, and Magic not just a bit but several fold... it is absurd (in fact, regularly 1, maybe 2 shots, most bosses). As for Choco/Mog & Seal Evil they simply grant paralyze on almost every boss in the game (few are immune).


FF8: Limit breaks... limit break for you, limit break for you!! Limit Breaks for everyone!!!!!! You can spam limit breaks every... single... turn... because... because... *sweat drop* BECAUSE! Don't Ask! You can do so without even being genuinely in low health due to junction system letting you get late game HP early so "critical health" with late game HP really equals yellow critical health but actually more than you would have normally... Oh, and uh there are a bunch of ways to get literal immortality effects so you can spam at low HP. Oh, and most characters have Cloud's ultimate limit break Omnislash equivalent as early as... Yup, they start with it. Hell, Zell can 1-cycle limit break Omega Weapon super boss. Oh, and instant death actually works on like 80% of the game's non-boss mobs while over 80% of the bosses have level caps (yes, that is right... if you over level they stop at certain levels... not that you need to because junction OP). Oh, you can also get end game stats, most character's ultimate weapons as early as around Galbia Garden, and Squall gets an Omnislash in addition to an Omnislash (Renozuken + Lion's Heart) BECAUSE Okay!?


FF9: Well... first of all, Zidane's limit break, as long as his weapons are kept current, almost if not outright 1-shot almost all the bosses in the game through the first 3 discs BECAUSE the boss HP is so bizarrely low for some reason. Later on Steiner can just do this with basic skills and attack... because... Oh, and it isn't rocket science to test Reflect Ring from Treno auction on party with Vivi to see what happens when you AoE magic cast your 4 man team. It results in 9999 damage for the entire game as early as disc 1... BECAUSE reasons okay? None of this is hidden... at least the game features a somewhat utilized elemental affinity system for mobs, even bosses, and your own characters so you can capitalize (mostly on Vivi and Steiner sword magic until Steiner just becomes broken on his own).


FF10: There really isn't any difficulty in a game where almost all the main bosses are way too weak, yet the game still throws free limit breaks, buffs, debuffs on bosses, heals, etc. by using a "Talk" command in the fights... Even worse, while it may not be immediately obvious once you come across speed and delay attack skills and try them basically just a single time you will automatically know there is no salvaging the game's difficulty. Nothing like a bit of agility stat and then just abusing speed/delay attack to never let any boss (super bosses included) ever get a single (literal, not exaggerated) turn... BECAUSE. Oh, and besides you get like how many summons and they're very powerful, can break dmg limit your party can't easily do, and can also act as a dozen lives per boss? Right... That was a thing. Oh, and the final boss can't kill you. No, dead serious. Literally impossible to lose series of boss fights... and the one preceding it is kind of a joke, A joke with good music.

FFX-2 has all sorts of broken stuff, but I think the special cameo mascot dresspheres are the most blatantly problematic along with the limit spheres or whatever they were I forget. I wont count Cat's Bell/Iron Dukes since those are NG+ only, basically. Those specific dress spheres simply are disgustingly loaded in stats and powerful abilities.


FF12 has like a dozen different ways to buff your basic attack, so effectively so you can literally turn your other two characters into heal/revive/buff bots and that one character still set to attack will out DPS like the equivalent of 20-30 other normal characters when you normally have a 3 party team allowing you to beat mid and late game hunts super early. Oh, you can also just run past a few mobs and grab end game equipment, because why not screw balance the game doesn't even have a main character or romance so to hell with it all or somethin somethin... whatevs.


This is just a list of oh, hey this is so clearly broken even a 5 year old can figure it out, type situation. Only FF8 even really has a neat resistance/buff and debuff (actually works on mobs/bosses) system with some other cool tactics, but then it blows it all away by giving you the power of nuclear One Punch Man or some garbage.

At least FF7 Remake, ironically despite its action appearance, has sincere depth... though it isn't what I'd call balanced, either, by any stretch but still does a more adequate job compared to the others.

Alas, I only listed some of the most blatant issues, and by no means a comprehensive list of the game's broken balance.


I love Final Fantasy games, but simply said... the combat in them is pretty bad. If you compare it to something like Growlanser, Xenoblade Chronicles, some (not all) Tales of games on harder difficulties (definitely not a thing on normal), etc. the FF series just pales in combat, granted all of those you can get crazy broken in as well but it isn't nearly as blatant or accessible. (Not including SRPGs on purpose, because obviously...). To be fair though, this is honestly an issue like 90% of the JRPGs out there suffer from including other popular ones like Dragon Quest (lol... I think they're made so a 4 year old can beat them), Persona franchise, Chrono Trigger, Grandia, etc.

[Cypher Raige]

The last turn-based FF game was nearly 15 years ago. Just let it go bruh. It's over 😩

If turn-based fans are really eating good thanks to SEGA, then why are you on here begging for Final Fantasy?

[Scarlet Crusade]

World of Final Fantasy came out in 2016, and while it may be a spin-off, I still count it as a turn-based FF game.

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Originally posted by Xengre:

I love Final Fantasy games, but simply said... the combat in them is pretty bad. If you compare it to something like Growlanser, Xenoblade Chronicles,

Xenoblade combat is MMO combat, in a single player game.

Nice example to use, bro

[alumlovescake]

Originally posted by Xaphnir:

Originally posted by alumlovescake:

I love turn based games but Final Fantasy has almost never gotten it right besides once

V, VI, VII, X and X-2 all have great turn-based combat systems

I'd agree with X but I hate the rest. ATB or any FF game with combat based about that system is some of the worst combat in any game. I just prefer traditional turn based like the way X was or something like Dragon Quest or Trails

[Soulreaver]

Originally posted by Bigboss PC Faster:

Is it time for Final Fantasy to stop pampering mainstream audience and return to turn based RPG?

The answer is a plain and simple: No