Not a good idea to buy this. Here's why:

[Vit]

Sega has been shown to be extremely greedy and anti-consumer in the past few years and they just keep on doubling down.

They removed sonic 1, 2, 3 & knuckles from steam just to be able to sell another crappy new collection for 60 dollars (sonic origins), with inferior versions of the original games (no original soundtrack).

They add denuvo to everything, which, regardless of whether you care about performance issues or not, is extremely anti-consumer since it makes games always online. People have already forgotten that just a couple of months back, there was an outage in denuvo servers, which made every game using it unplayable for a whole day, meaning millions of gamers couldn't play the games they paid for. I do not buy games with that DRM. Many people don't.

This game is just a remaster of sonic generations, which is in itself a scam. The PC version of generations is already remastered. It's called "increasing the resolution". It runs beautifully at 60+ fps at 4K. But for a console gamer it can be considered a remaster, because the PS3 version looked god-awful, ran like crap and took 30+ seconds to load/reload a level. I played it once and it was dreadful. The Shadow thing could easily be sold as a separate DLC for sonic generations, but sega rather charge you 50€ for it. They even charge you an extra 10€ to play it earlier, another scam and anti-consumer practice.

They are handling this remaster terribly compared to other companies. THQ gave Darksiders Warmastered for free to people who had the original. 2K gave Bioshock and Bioshock 2 remastered for free to people who had the originals and even added achievements. Gearbox gave Borderlands remastered to people who had the original, and they did it even better: they replaced the original with the remaster in everyone's libraries and it even "inherited" the progress of the original including the achievements. So I have the remaster at 100% on my library, because I had the original at 100%.

Sega is just selling PC players the same game again with extra DLC tacked on for 50€. It's not even a remaster, because as I said, the PC version of the original doesn't need to be remastered because you can just change the resolution. And sure, we can wait for a digital foundry deep analysis, but looking at the trailers, there are absolutely no graphical improvements made in this version compared to the original. It's just a 50€ standalone DLC with intrusive DRM.

Let's also not forget that sega launched Sonic Mania on PC with denuvo, even though they didn't tell anyone and didn't use the mandatory warning label on the steam store. This caused a huge issue and forced sega to immediately remove the DRM from the game, because otherwise they would be breaking Steam's ToS and would have to refund every single copy, on top of being liable for a class-action lawsuit (this is due to the fact that denuvo forces you to accept their terms and conditions, and since there was no label on the game, this was skipped, meaning you were playing the game without accepting their EULA, which is a big problem).

On top of all of this, we just got news that there will be platform-exclusive content. This means that every version of the game other than the PS5 one will be incomplete, despite costing the same 50€.

Scummy company. I recommend everyone to not support this release.

[ДеКойка]

These arguments really show that there are good reasons to think twice before buying Sonic X Shadow Generations. If you're a fan of the series and are concerned about the aforementioned issues, it might be worth waiting and seeing how Sega will respond to criticism and fix things.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by Vit:

They removed sonic 1, 2, 3 & knuckles from steam just to be able to sell another crappy new collection for 60 dollars (sonic origins), with inferior versions of the original games (no original soundtrack).

It's true that some music tracks were replaced, but they added widescreen support, native 4K, extra game modes, new mechanics, new playable characters and additional bonus features. It's by no means a given that the Origins versions are "inferior" (and the originals likely hadn't been selling for years anyway).

Originally posted by Vit:

They add denuvo to everything, which, regardless of whether you care about performance issues or not, is extremely anti-consumer since it makes games always online.

I've heard people complaining about Denuvo for years, and yet despite it being present on several of my games, it has never caused me a single problem. I mean, it's fine for people to not like Denuvo on principle but it's hardly the 'anti-consumer" practice some tend to portray it as.

Originally posted by Vit:

This game is just a remaster of sonic generations, which is in itself a scam.

They're selling exactly what they're claiming to sell. There is no "scam". If you don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved.

Originally posted by Vit:

The Shadow thing could easily be sold as a separate DLC for sonic generations, but sega rather charge you 50€ for it.

From what I understand Sonic X Shadow Generations is built on an entirely different engine than the original Generations, so it wouldn't necessarily be as simple as you suggest to include SDhadow's campaign as DLC.

Besides, what they charge is irrelevant for people willing to wait for a sale. The Sonic games all eventually get heavy discounts, and as someone who owns the original Generations I have no problem waiting a few years till this one's on sale for 80% off or more.

Originally posted by Vit:

Sega is just selling PC players the same game again with extra DLC tacked on for 50€.

I get the impression the real reason this game exists is so Generations would be available on modern consoles, with a PC version offered as an afterthought. I doubt Sega will be offended if people who already own Origins on PC skip this one (or wait for a sale), since, as you've pointed out, they haven't really made any effort to make it enticing for PC players.

Originally posted by Vit:

Scummy company. I recommend everyone to not support this release.

Most of your gripes are on principle as opposed to based on whether this game will actually be worth playing. Don't get me wrong, that's totally fine, you're welcome to buy or not buy games for whatever reasons are important to you. As someone who doesn't share your gripes, I'm waiting until I hear more about Shadow's campaign to see if it warrants my attention (along with, as I said, a heavy discount).

[Vit]

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

It's true that some music tracks were replaced, but they added widescreen support, native 4K, extra game modes, new mechanics, new playable characters and additional bonus features. It's by no means a given that the Origins versions are "inferior" (and the originals likely hadn't been selling for years anyway).

False. Sonic 1, 2, 3&K as well as sonic CD were delisted from steam on May 20, 2022 ahead of origins release on June 23rd.
Source: https://steamdb.info/app/71162/history/

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

I've heard people complaining about Denuvo for years, and yet despite it being present on several of my games, it has never caused me a single problem. I mean, it's fine for people to not like Denuvo on principle but it's hardly the 'anti-consumer" practice some tend to portray it as.

It takes control away from players, and only allows games to be played as long as you are online and can connect to denuvo's servers (this assumes, like how it has happened multiple times in the past that they aren't down. It was been described as "draconian" and it has been proven multiple times beyond a shadow of a doubt that it affects performance. A couple of notable recent examples are:
1) The cracked version of Resident Evil Village running better than the genuine copy due to tricking denuvo checks.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZGCwAJpbM
2) Tekken 7 director Katsuhiro Harada lamenting he can't patch the online performance of the game because the problems are being caused by denuvo.
Source: https://x.com/harada_tekken/status/984834105220055041

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

They're selling exactly what they're claiming to sell. There is no "scam". If you don't like it, don't buy it. Problem solved.

It claims to be a remaster. Like I said, we can wait more time for an in-depth analysis, but so far from the information we have, there is no remaster. Scam.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

From what I understand Sonic X Shadow Generations is built on an entirely different engine than the original Generations, so it wouldn't necessarily be as simple as you suggest to include SDhadow's campaign as DLC.

Fair enough. Still, much like the other companies i used as an example, they should just give the remaster upgrade for people who already own the game and then sell the DLC separately.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Besides, what they charge is irrelevant for people willing to wait for a sale. The Sonic games all eventually get heavy discounts, and as someone who owns the original Generations I have no problem waiting a few years till this one's on sale for 80% off or more.

Wise decision. Although in my case, and many other people's, as long as it has denuvo, it's a hard pass regardless of price. Which is a shame because I would like to play it. But I also wanted to play Forces and Frontiers, but they still have denuvo. And since I stick to my principles, I haven't bought them yet. Some other games by sega have had denuvo removed years after release (some Yakuza games for example) so one day it might happen.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

I get the impression the real reason this game exists is so Generations would be available on modern consoles, with a PC version offered as an afterthought. I doubt Sega will be offended if people who already own Origins on PC skip this one (or wait for a sale), since, as you've pointed out, they haven't really made any effort to make it enticing for PC players.

But in that case why not try to create some goodwill and just do what Gearbox, 2K or THQ did and just give the remaster to people who own the original and then offer and upgrade path for the full shadow edition?

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Most of your gripes are on principle as opposed to based on whether this game will actually be worth playing. Don't get me wrong, that's totally fine, you're welcome to buy or not buy games for whatever reasons are important to you. As someone who doesn't share your gripes, I'm waiting until I hear more about Shadow's campaign to see if it warrants my attention (along with, as I said, a heavy discount).

Again fair enough. By principle (to me), if a game has denuvo, then it's automatically a hard pass, aka not worth playing. Same as Nier automata for 4 years after release, which is how loog it took SE to patch the PC version of the game and remove denuvo. After they did that, I bought the game. Simple as.
But yeah, I understand not everyone cares because not everyone is aware of these issues.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by Vit:

False. Sonic 1, 2, 3&K as well as sonic CD were delisted from steam on May 20, 2022 ahead of origins release on June 23rd.

I didn't suggest otherwise. I'm just saying the Origins versions are not necessarily "inferior", as they do feature several additions and improvements.

Originally posted by Vit:

It takes control away from players

Perhaps, in theory. Again, I've never had a single problem.

Originally posted by Vit:

it has been proven multiple times beyond a shadow of a doubt that it affects performance.

Again, the controlled experiments where all variables are accounted for showed little to no difference. I've certainly never had an issue with it in any of my games.

But again, you're welcome to have a problem with Denuvo. If it's a deal-breaker for you, then more power to you. But it's not a deal-breaker for everybody, and it's not particularly productive to try to convince others they should be as angry about Denuvo as you are.

Originally posted by Vit:

It claims to be a remaster.

And you're assuming it isn't while admitting we don't yet know the extent of how the graphics will be improved. That's not how scams work.

Originally posted by Vit:

Still, much like the other companies i used as an example, they should just give the remaster upgrade for people who already own the game and then sell the DLC separately.

Different studios with different goals make different decisions under different circumstances at different times for different reasons with different results. There is no "should", just what you'd personally prefer.

Originally posted by Vit:

Wise decision. Although in my case, and many other people's, as long as it has denuvo, it's a hard pass regardless of price.

And that's totally valid.

Originally posted by Vit:

But in that case why not try to create some goodwill and just do what Gearbox, 2K or THQ did and just give the remaster to people who own the original and then offer and upgrade path for the full shadow edition?

Who knows? They haven't offered their reasoning.

Originally posted by Vit:

But yeah, I understand not everyone cares because not everyone is aware of these issues.

I'm very well aware as I've heard the complaints MANY times, but as I've said I've never had a single problem caused by Denuvo. It's not so much that people aren't aware of the issues as it is that they don't necessarily have any issues at all.

[Vit]

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

I'm very well aware as I've heard the complaints MANY times, but as I've said I've never had a single problem caused by Denuvo. It's not so much that people aren't aware of the issues as it is that they don't necessarily have any issues at all.

Not true. Like I said, this is not opinion, it has been clearly shown time and time again that denuvo introduces performance problems. You are free to ignore all the data though. This also means that you actually have had problems with denuvo, you just didn't notice them because you have no basis for comparison, since you didnt play the games with and without denuvo, only with. unlike the tests performed by many people who directly contrast the same games with and without denuvo. Performance isues, taking longer to load, being harder to mod.....the list of issues goes on.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Perhaps, in theory. Again, I've never had a single problem.

Not "perhaps". It's anti-consumer in theory and in practice. Because it affects the consumer negatively. It's quite literally anti-consumer by definition.
But some defend it because they have no idea what they are talking about, by literally using the "works on my machine!™" argument.

[supermichael]

It is too bad there is no reward for having the original game, there is zero discounts for having the original game. Normally when someone has the original game, they can get the remastered version at a discount.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by Vit:

Not true. Like I said, this is not opinion, it has been clearly shown time and time again that denuvo introduces performance problems.

That's not what I've seen, and since my personal experiences have been problem-free, then it's clearly not as "objective" as you're suggesting.

Originally posted by Vit:

since you didnt play the games with and without denuvo, only with.

The vast, vast majority of my 4200+ Steam games do not include Denuvo, so I have most certainly played games both with and without Denuvo. And if the games that do feature Denuvo would theoretically run with a couple of extra frames per second (that I would never notice) if they didn't have Denuvo, then that supports my suggestion that the effect of Denuvo on performance is negligible and doesn't actually cause issues for most players.

Originally posted by Vit:

It's anti-consumer in theory and in practice.

But I'm a practicing gamer and that hasn't been the case for me.

Originally posted by Vit:

Because it affects the consumer negatively.

Not for me it hasn't. that's kind of the whole point.

[NBOX21]

I'd just like to remind everyone here that the Tomb Raider Trilogy remasters came out earlier this year.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2478970/Tomb_Raider_IIII_Remastered_Starring_Lara_Croft/
However, the original versions of all 3 games remain available to buy on Steam
https://store.steampowered.com/app/224960/Tomb_Raider_I_1996/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/225300/Tomb_Raider_II_1997/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/225320/Tomb_Raider_III_1998/
If other publishers can give players a choice as to what versions of the game they prefer to buy, I see no reason why SEGA can't do the same as well.

Originally posted by Vit:

But in that case why not try to create some goodwill and just do what Gearbox, 2K or THQ did and just give the remaster to people who own the original and then offer and upgrade path for the full shadow edition?

Or at the very least do what Ori did where the original version of Blind Forest got de-listed from Steam once the Definitive Edition released, but those that bought the original got a discount on the Definitive Edition to make up for the added content, gameplay improvements and bonus features the original didn't have while also giving new buyers of the Definitive Edition the original version for free.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by NBOX21:

If other publishers can give players a choice as to what versions of the game they prefer to buy, I see no reason why SEGA can't do the same as well.

Right, but you not seeing a reason doesn't mean there isn't a reason.

[supermichael]

I never tested to see if Denuvo makes a difference in game performance, so I can't say anything from experience.
However if Denuvo has the power to prevents games from working, that is not a good thing.

Every game made my M.A.D/Mastertronic that has DRM, they don't work anymore. An example being Sonic Heroes. Basically that CD is garbage.
Their website no longer exist, which used to have PC-CD games.


Would it kill Sega to give people a discount for having Sonic Generations, when they buy Sonic X Shadow Generations? The answer is no, they would still make a huge profit.
However they won't give us any discount, because they simply don't want to.

[Vit]

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

That's not what I've seen, and since my personal experiences have been problem-free, then it's clearly not as "objective" as you're suggesting.

Like I said, you are free to ignore the data. But if you do, you're out of the discussion.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

The vast, vast majority of my 4200+ Steam games do not include Denuvo, so I have most certainly played games both with and without Denuvo. And if the games that do feature Denuvo would theoretically run with a couple of extra frames per second (that I would never notice) if they didn't have Denuvo, then that supports my suggestion that the effect of Denuvo on performance is negligible and doesn't actually cause issues for most players.

Same answer as above. If you ignore the data, then your arguments hold no weight.
Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

But I'm a practicing gamer and that hasn't been the case for me.

Same answer as above. Completely ignoring the fact that you were blocked from your denuvo games multiple times in the past due to issues with denuvo servers.
"b-b-b-but it didn't affect meeeee because I happened to not play games on those days!!"
I guess ignorance truly is bliss huh.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Not for me it hasn't. that's kind of the whole point.

Once again incorrect.
You're literally just repeating the whole "it doesn't affect me personally, so it doesn't matter" argument. Well it does affect you, you just don't wanna admit it. The data doesn't care about your feelings though. As I said, ignore the data, and you become irrelevant to the discussion.

[Vit]

Originally posted by supermichael:

I never tested to see if Denuvo makes a difference in game performance, so I can't say anything from experience.
However if Denuvo has the power to prevents games from working, that is not a good thing.

Like I've said, multiple trustworthy sources have tested it extensively and the results are pretty much undeniable. Some games suffer little, true, but they all suffer. I saw someone playing Code Vein a while ago for example, and the game ran flawlessly except when the player moved between zones in the world.
Since the game is basically anime Dark Souls, which doesn't drop a frame even while traversing the entire world map, I found it strange that the game would drop down from 60 to 15-20 fps for several seconds when moving between zones. I checked and lo and behold, denuvo. I actually compared it with the PS4 version, running of the console's HDD and the performance drop on the PS4 while loading between zones is nowhere near what happens on a modern PC running off an SSD. It's actually insane.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by Vit:

Like I said, you are free to ignore the data.

Your "data" is meaningless if it has no effect on my experience. When I play a game, I'm not playing "your data".

Originally posted by Vit:

Same answer as above. Completely ignoring the fact that you were blocked from your denuvo games multiple times in the past due to issues with denuvo servers.

I have never been blocked from my Denuvo games. Not even once.

Originally posted by Vit:

Well it does affect you, you just don't wanna admit it.

That's not for you to say. Again, it's fine for you to object to Denuvo on principle and abstain from purchasing games that include it. But you are not the arbiter of what everyone else should think and do.

[Tanoomba]

Originally posted by Vit:

Code Vein

See? You're starting with your conclusion then using confirmation bias to find "evidence" to support it. We don't know whether Code Vein would run better without Denuvo. The issues you describe may very well have nothing to do with Denuvo at all. There are certainly more variables that differ between a console game and a PC game than Denuvo alone.

[Vit]

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

Your "data" is meaningless if it has no effect on my experience. When I play a game, I'm not playing "your data".

Sorry bro, data doesn't care about what you think either.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

I have never been blocked from my Denuvo games. Not even once.

Factually false, as I've said before multiple times. Just because you didn't see it it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

That's not for you to say. Again, it's fine for you to object to Denuvo on principle and abstain from purchasing games that include it. But you are not the arbiter of what everyone else should think and do.

Never said I was. I was, so once again you're just making things up as you go. I'm just making a recommendation based on arguments and data. You came in with neither. Not even sure why I'm still replying to your vacuous posts. Either you post something to back up your claims or you will just keep making yourself look like an idiot.

That being said, all your replies keep bumping my thread so more people will see it, which is great. :D

Originally posted by Tanoomba:

See? You're starting with your conclusion then using confirmation bias to find "evidence" to support it. We don't know whether Code Vein would run better without Denuvo. The issues you describe may very well have nothing to do with Denuvo at all. There are certainly more variables that differ between a console game and a PC game than Denuvo alone.

Correct! the fact that the PS4 version is running from a slow HDD and the PC version was running from an m.2 ssd with 3500mb/s read speeds, and also the fact that the pc was multiple times more powerful and that the game only dropped in performance on the PC in one specific situation, which didn't happen on the PS4, which coincidentally, doesn't have denuvo. All those variables, which all point in the same direction. Thanks for pointing that out. :D