Why does Estelle act like it's a bad thing to be a tomboy?

[Little Game Fairy]

She seems to be ashamed of her own "masculine" traits. And talks about her own tomboyishness like it's a bad thing. While using it as an insult against others.

Being a hot blooded and confident girl is a part of who Estelle is and always has been. Why not embrace and take pride in who she is? It's what makes her, her, and also what makes her interesting.

You would think that someone who is so confident would also be confident enough to be herself, and not be afraid of being gender non-conforming in any way. Or that that matter, not be ashamed of being strong.

[COINCELPRO]

because she's portrayed as an actual female with her feminine instincts intact and not a mentally aberrant freak in service of modern day gender grievances

[Little Game Fairy]

Originally posted by kurevitsu:

because she's portrayed as an actual female with her feminine instincts intact and not a mentally aberrant freak in service of modern day gender grievances

Your worldview is extremely unfortunate and poisonous.

Being a female does not mean you have to fit into a restrictive and repressive stereotype.

[Gin-chan]

oh god don't bring this into my games. SJW's ruin everything.

[Little Game Fairy]

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

oh god don't bring this into my games. SJW's ruin everything.

Games aren't your belonging. They belong to everyone. Including people who have different opinions than you.

[Gin-chan]

Originally posted by Little Game Fairy:

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

oh god don't bring this into my games. SJW's ruin everything.

Games aren't your belonging. They belong to everyone. Including people who have different opinions than you.

Nah not according to the SJW crowd. Anything that does not support their opinion is not allowed apparently.

[Little Game Fairy]

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

Nah not according to the SJW crowd. Anything that does not support their opinion is not allowed apparently.

Well, I didn't say anything about what is allowed or not allowed or advocate censorship.

[Gin-chan]

Originally posted by Little Game Fairy:

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

Nah not according to the SJW crowd. Anything that does not support their opinion is not allowed apparently.

Well, I didn't say anything about what is allowed or not allowed or advocate censorship.

You're certainly implying it in that Estelle should not want to be feminine. Its just a standard trope used. Nothing more to read into it. Anime does this all the time about tomboyish girls wanting to be more feminine.

[Little Game Fairy]

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

You're certainly implying it in that Estelle should not want to be feminine.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be feminine. I want to be feminine.

Female characters should also be able to be proud of who they are and how "tomboyish" they are, though.

And simply adhering to tropes is kind of boring.

[Gin-chan]

Originally posted by Little Game Fairy:

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be feminine. I want to be feminine.

Female characters should also be able to be proud of who they are and how "tomboyish" they are, though.

And simply adhering to tropes is kind of boring.

alrighty then. The thing with tropes though its rare to find a jrpg or anime that plays with it or subverts it well.You gotta remember they are common for a reason especially in japanese culture due to values dissonance. Oh great now i'm using tvtrope language.......

[myhr2]

It's normal and healthy to be questionned or teased about a personality trait that is not the norm (or that is the norm, to be honest). Estelle is being teased, yes, notably by her family, Cassius and Joshua. That being said, her father, Cassius, is also 100% supportive of her, as he never showed any sign of discouraging her independant and frank behavior. And Joshua, well, finish Trails in the Sky FC and SC and come back, it'll be interesting to talk about the subject then.

My point is, it is healthy to question yourself, to actually delve into what constitute your personality, and to confront it to the norm, be it to comform yourself to it or to accept your differences, and neither is a bad thing. This is the difference between teasing someone, and mocking someone. Estelle is a teenager, it's normal for her to question herself, to search herself. But believe me, she finds herself during Trails SC.

So yeah, at some point, some characters will tease Estelle about her tomboyishery, because it is an unusual trait, it deviates from what society expects, and, let's be honest, it can cause funny situations from the shift between the norm and the reality. But when you look about what the game actually portrays beyond that, I do think it's clear that it promotes real acceptance about uncommon traits, because they're never stigmatized or portrayed in an exclusively bad manner.

Take a deep breath, stop seeing prejudice everywhere. Accept that differences should also be challenged, not by ill-intent, but in order to attain balance.

[Hat8]

Originally posted by kurevitsu:

because she's portrayed as an actual female with her feminine instincts intact and not a mentally aberrant freak in service of modern day gender grievances

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

oh god don't bring this into my games. SJW's ruin everything.

Sjws don't believe Tomboys exist though.

[Oguzhan]

She is also at THAT age where people get a bit more aware of themselves. Estelle has "manly" hobbies sure but she does wan't to be a bit more feminine, just a bit.

That being said she constantly makes fun of Josette for being a tomboy because she can't stand her since Josette is after Joshua AND was a criminal who had a lot of issues with Estelle at the beginning. In later games Estelle does become more and more adult like in that she will just brush off a rude comment. At the end of the day though one thing is for certain, if Josette and Estelle had to help one another, they would do it. Both of them are actually very similar in that they have the heart of gold. I don't know where you are at in the game or whether this is your first run but when the situation calls for it Josette is very supportive of Estelle and vice versa.

[Little Game Fairy]

Originally posted by myhr2:

And Joshua, well, finish Trails in the Sky FC and SC and come back, it'll be interesting to talk about the subject then.

Don't worry about spoilers, I've already beaten Trails in the Sky FC and SC over a year ago. And I'm over halfway through 3rd. A little ways past where you.. meet up again with a certain purple haired girl with a Scythe. As well as a very regal butler. You can see the achievements on my profile.

Going to be playing the translation of the Crossbell games when I finish 3rd, and then finally move on to the Cold Steel series when I finish that.

I'm going for finishing the entire Legend of Heroes series now. And atm I've actually taken a little bit of a hiatus from both 3rd and Tales of Vesperia to play the Gagharv saga, starting with Legacy of the Moonlight Witch/White Witch. Even though it isn't considered to be a good translation, at least I can play it in English. It would be nice for the Gagharv and Crossbell games to be localized in English for Steam by XSEED. But I guess they're probably focused on bringing Trails of Cold Steel III and then IV to Steam first.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Little Game Fairy:

It would be nice for the Gagharv and Crossbell games to be localized in English for Steam by XSEED. But I guess they're probably focused on bringing Trails of Cold Steel III and then IV to Steam first.

Oh. You haven't heard, then.

NISA got the rights to localise CS 3 and 4, and that probably also puts an end to hopes of any official localisation for the Crossbell games, never mind the older ones.

There is not likely to be enough profit to be had for localising Crossbell and any older games to recover the cost. And because Falcom was willing to ditch XSeed who were largely responsible for the popularity of Trails in the west, no one has any incentive to take a loss on older games in exchange for hopes of making that back by porting modern games.

[Berahlen]

Most real people neither fully accept nor reject expected gender norms. Additionally, this game was written in Japan where those norms are very heavily expected, and set in an early industrial quasi-European setting where those norms are also very heavily expected and more modern schools of thought are barely emerging. That friction is just part of growing up and figuring out who you are. A lot of people feel social stability in at least loosely fitting some kind of mold, so it's not uncommon or even bad to go along with it to an extent as long as you don't let it define or restrict you.

Also, this is right as she's seriously starting to gun for Joshua. When she insults Josette for being a tomboy or gets annoyed at Olivier saying she's not feminine enough, that's half because they rub her the wrong way and incite jealousy, and half because she really has no idea how to "qualify" for Joshua so to speak, and only has those expectations to fall back on. As we find out later, Estelle as a fresh Junior Bracer is actually a good bit less tomboyish than she was as a kid, and 3rd spares no expense on demonstrating XD

This tension wasn't just side dressing -- it was a pretty big part of Estelle's character development. She ended up being probably my favorite RPG protagonist ever (and she comes dangerously close to stealing the spotlight in 3rd where she doesn't even show up until late in the game), so I can't say it turned out badly.