Bug thread 6.24

[kristoffer]

Please report bugs and issues here.
This thread is for bugs in version 6.24

We would like to have this thread clean and uncluttered, so please refrain from discussing issues and bugs here.

Remember to report specs (including graphics card) and OS (e.g windows 10, xubuntu 20.10 or OS X 10.10.4) if you experience a crash bug, a black screen, missing dialogue box backgrounds or something similar.

There is a mod-bug thread in the modding forum.

[Mormacil]

Brazen Vessel like most immobiles have a -1 malus to forging.

[Garfield]

Terrain recruitment for all forts + farms + plains and farm + plains but no forts is missing a description. Could be useful if you want to have units that can only be recruited in plains and farmlands.

[halo 2]

I ran into a bug regarding nexus gateway. If you build more than two gates, the nexus tile neighbor links don't seem to render correctly, only producing two exit points. This means you can only travel from the nexus to the first two places, and not to any newly built gate locations on the overworld.

[Andkat]

Fommepori are described as being 'of the forests'. However, while the new Fommepori shamans do have forest survival the Fommepori Warrior troops (3295) do not.

[Andkat]

Rakshasi (1739) and Raksharaja (1738) are both 6-path cap only mages. While the Raksharani has seduce and stealthy, the Raksharaja has better stats across the board on top of an additional attack and holy level. However, the raksharani is slow to recruit while the raksharaja has normal 2-turn recruitment, representing an enormous difference in terms of relative cap turn efficiency and consequent incentives. It seems like conceptually and thematically both should have the same recruitment time, whether slow or normal.

[Crazy Ike]

My dracoliche pretender is not getting my bless, despite fighting inside my dominion. This is happening repeatedly.

[Mormacil]

Crazy Ike lähetti viestin:

My dracoliche pretender is not getting my bless, despite fighting inside my dominion. This is happening repeatedly.

Dominion spreads after battles so was he in your dominion during the battle or only after?

[Marchallmo]

Winged Shoes apply Flying to commanders, but if removed from those commanders the Flying tag persists.

[Demonsthenes]

Displacement doesn't penalize attack rolls to repel, like it does other attack rolls. This doesn't make sense to me; if the concept is the repelling thug is putting his weapon between himself and the attacker, then incorrect information about where the attacker is should make that less effective.

In particular, this makes the chainmail of displacement bad for a counter thug against a repel build, in a way that is counter intuitive (you pay the defense penalty but don't get the displacement effect).

I'd prefer to see this detail changed, but if not it should be explained in the displacement effect description.

[Demonsthenes]

The messages about starving armies don't make it easy to tell whether false supplies are sufficient for a given army to avoid the morale penalty.

Makes the tablecloth of marvelous feasts a lot less nice on Lanka, where you have a lot of Demons that can't get diseased but still don't like the huge morale penalties.

[Garfield]

There is a spell called Personal Poison Resistance in alteration that gives the caster +10 poison res and a spell called Protection from Poison in enchantment that gives the caster +15 poison res. Should both these spells exist at the same time?

[Andkat]

Missing eyes/unsurroundeable:


Despite having three heads, Nagarishi, Nagini, and Nagaraja (1320, 1321, 1322) have only one head slot and only 2 eyes; they should at least have 6 eyes and a corresponding unsurroundeable value if not three head slots each.

The Hashmal (2057) is described as having 4 faces facing in multiple directions, but has only 2 eyes assigned and no unsurroundeable value. Given that it is described as having a body and face, it also perhaps ought to have a body and crown slot.

The Ophan (2051) has 12 eyes facing in multiple directions, but has no unsurroundeable value. It also feels like it ought to be an innate caster by analogy to other such amorphous and terrible beings of pure light or energy as e.g. Vastnesses (it's only H3 so it would hardly pose a balance issue, as innate caster often otherwise does).

Zmey (1940) have three heads but only 2 eyes and no unsurroundeable value, unlike Drakon or Azi.



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Also, the game is pretty inconsistent about whether 3 heads translates to unsurroundeable 2 or unsurroundeable 3.

I.e. Chimera (487) and Geryon Triple-Headed (3175) have a value of 3, but Asura (3662), Ladon (3167), Drakon (2783), Azi (2608), hydra hatchlings (1840, 1859), relevant hydra woundshapes (1852, 1833, 1828) , and grotesques (659) only have 2.

The Hound of Twilight (3168) also has unsurroundeable 2 despite having only two heads and four eyes, unless the snake-tail is meant to be a factor there (it is clearly for chimera, but the snake tail there is also accorded 2 eyes).
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Dark Vines have unsurroundeable values, but many other tentacle-sensing monstrosities lack such :
Octopoids: Considering that octopi tentacles in particular are powerful sensory organs, there is I think a strong logical argument for kraken (438, 973, 639) and by analogy the King in Yellow (3396) having unsurroundeable values. Similar arguments might also be advanced for the Bukavac (1948).

While not necessarily extrapolating from octopi, the radially many-tentacled Abomination (521), Foul Beast (467), Vile Thing (750) , and Thing From the Void (753) should also qualify for some unsurroundeable value purely by analogy to Dark Vines.

Things That Should Not Be (751) have tentacles that are more frontally distributed but might still make sense for such.

Aboleths/dai (1520, 660, 2883, 1521, 1691, 3098, 1522, 2883, 1404) and their Androleth creations (2884, 2885) likewise have tentacles projecting at multiple angles that may serve an appropriate sensory function as above, for justifying some degree of the trait.

Elder Things (752) look like they ought to have some value of unsurroundeable given their complete radial symmetry and lack of dependency on eyes. Same arguments apply for Othernesses (754, 755, 756), as well as some of the few immobiles with defense values like the Void Lurker (546) and Divine Glyph (1025). It would especially allow the divine glyph to better leverage its sight vengeance effect defensively.

[Andkat]

The sailing commanders of Vanheim and LA Marignon can all transport size 5-6, but the human-size sailing commanders of Berytos and Phaeacia are generally only capable of transporting size 4 and size 3 respectively. This limitation doesn't make a whole lot of sense, prevents Berytos from sailing with its lancers, and and renders size 3 sailing commanders pretty dubious for Phaeacia (although Dark Vessels obviously compensates in many scenarios).

This is especially odd because size 3 Phaeacian Wind Callers (but not their more powerful Berytian predecessors) are able to transport up to size 5.

There isn't a satisfying thematic or balance reason for why the human captains of these powers should not be able to transport up to size 5 (or arguably 6 like Marignon) on their boats like other sailing nations.

The relevant commanders are:

Berytos: (only transporting up to size 4)

Mage Pilot 2263
Sage 2424
Berytian Priest 2265
Berytian Captain 2253
Storm Caller 2264

Phaeacia: (only transporting up to size 3)
Priest 3166
Captain 3154
Mage Pilot 3151

[Andkat]

Many animals lack darkvision where they should possess it by analogy to their real world counterparts or other in-game representations. Many of these are alternate shapes, but some are the base creature:



Wolves: (for reference, white wolves, okami, and dire wolves are assigned dark vision already, wolves have good nightvision irl)

1229 - Son of Fenrer
3431 - Jotun Wolf
3434 - Jotun Wolf
3687 - wolf
1653 - Jotun wolf
3884 - wolf
284 - wolf
3532 - wolf mount
1309 - Jotun wolf
3625 - phantasmal wolf (phantasm, should have spirit sight)


Werewolves:
1651 - Jotun Werewolf
1652 - Jotun Werewolf
854 - Werewolf
3430 - Jotun Werewolf
3433 - Jotun Werewolf
3443 - Jotun Werewolf
399 - Werewolf
852 - Werewolf
2143 - Werewolf
401 - ♥♥♥♥♥ Queen
633 - werewolf


Dogs: (maybe a bit more ambiguous than wolves as irl dogs are more variable and the in-game dogs with such are either magical or cynocephalians)

1947- simargl
1560 - dog
2153 - war dog
3083 - hound
1064 - sea dog
3983 - phantasmal sea dog (phantasm, should have spirit sight)

Hyenas: (good night vision irl)
2294 -werehyena
2427 - werehyena


Bears: (bears have pretty good nightvision irl)
2998 -were bear
2351 - were bear
2996 -were bear
694 - great bear
3003 - great bear
3256 - were bear
3882 - great bear
3258 - great bear
3686 - great bear



Felines/Feline-Headed: (all mundane lions and cats have dark vision in-game, so these exceptions are pretty conspicuously odd)
728 - Were Jaguar
957 - Lord of the Desert Sun
1097 - Lord of the Summer Plague
2686 - Apu Inti
3916 - Fay Folk - puss in boots (he deserves it)
487 - Chimera
3395 - Demiurge
3064 - Anzu
3267 - Bakeneko
3268 - bakeneko humanoid

All black cats have 100% darkvision in-game, but their oversized analog in the uba ghost cat form (1430) only has 50% (by extension, it'd also make sense if Bakeneko received 100% darkvision).


Snakes/Serpents: (many snakes have infravision irl so some level of darkvision would be highly appropriate)
814 - fire snake
1435 - swamp serpent
397 - black serpent
403 - horned serpent
1889 - Jade serpent
654 - serpent king serpent form
653 - serpent king
2792 - solar serpent
295 - sacred serpent
3657 - asp
3658 - salamander asp
2799 - Wadjet
2800 - Ormr

Couatl, sea serpents, and some other vaguely snake-likes also lack such, but I'm not sure what makes sense for them

Spiders: (cave spiders get 100%, but all spiders should have some)
898 -great spider
899 -hunter spider
3653 - great spider
947 - great spider
2208 - hunter spider
3655 - great spider
782 - giant spider
884 - great spider
2223 -large spider
3554 -great spider
3555 - hunter spider
3263 - jorogumo
3651 - God-spider

Frogs and Toads: (good night vision irl)
2222 - frog
3712 - spine frog
1358 - monster toad
1359 - jaguar toad

Salamanders: (good night vision irl)
213 - Salamander


Monster Fish :
1664 - etc. (not too relevant for its attack, but it's an archetypally benthic creature so hey)


Ancient Presence:
2251 - should probably have spirit sight

Sharks- Shark-Soldiers have darkvision 50% but actual sharks do not:
816 - shark
815 -shark
3656 -shark!

Shrimp: Shrimp soldiers have darkvision 100% but actual shrimp (2369) do not

Lobster: 210 has 100% darkvision, but 642 and 2273 have none



Scorpions:
The massive scorpions like sacred, beast, and xibalban scorpions are darkvision 100%, but their smaller counterparts (2233, 2232, 2687, 2688) use blind sight instead for some reason. The scorpion men (1649 and 655) have neither.


Some ungulates have relatively good night vision as herbivores go (moose, goats, etc.) but I'm somewhat less clear on whether any have it good enough that they would logically qualify for darkvision by the game's standards.


Cave Drakes:
Despite being endemic to caves, cave drakes (522, 2529, 3553) only have 50% darkvision, whereas most other cave fauna have 100% (i.e. cave grubs, cave cows, cave crabs)



Abysians:
On that note, being fully endemic to the cave layer from the start, wouldn't it make sense if purebred Abysians had 100% rather than 50% darkvision? Currently only the EA demonbred 1537 have full darkvision (even the MA demonbred 87 has only 50%).







Dragons:
Should dragons have darkvision? In-game they almost universally don't aside from the sea dragon, dragon of the cave, and dragon girl.

All eastern dragons have spirit sight with the exception of the Dragon of the Cave (3249, 3250) and Dragon Girl (2458, 2459); these two should probably receive such instead of their darkvision.

[Andkat]

Unlike poisonous frogs and toads, Chak Muuch (2732, 2730, 2731, 3261) do not have poison resist values despite secreting their own poisons. This is especially a liability when making use of the Chak Muuch dart throwers (although as they are not very competitive with other sacred options this is rarely an issue).

Additionally, given that they are modelled off of poison dart frogs who as many frogs do possess notable proficiency in climbing, it seems inappropriate that Chak Muuch assassins (3261 and 2732) do not possess scale walls when things like e.g. the ancient kraken do.

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Oni Shugo (1276) are described as "Kuro-oni of exceptional strength and power". However, they lack the poison spit (wepid 324) attack native to the basic troop Kuro-oni freespawn.


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Araburu-kami (3270, 3271) are derived from a root myth of gods of calamity strongly associated with mountains, rivers, and bodies of water and storms and floods issuing therefrom; however they do not possess mountain survival, amphibious/swimming, or storm power as would befit them. As they are already a pretty unattractive value prospect for death gem investment relative to shikome for Yomi, it might be reasonable to flesh out their traits a bit more.

(Hidden W/A/D paths for the cast down gods a la Danava/Daityas would also be very flavorful, although not exactly readily accessible for Yomi without a preplanned pretender)

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By analogy to Cynocephalians and Bandar, shouldn't the predator-lizards of C'tis (i.e. 171, 173, 172, 170, 1514, 321, 423) have the animal trait?

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Vintofelei shaman spirit horses (4067) are described as "The spirit horse is a spirit that has manifested a physical form as part of a pact with a shaman." but are neither magic-beings nor spiritform. Also maybe they should be ethereal?