Why is the chance of a cambion so low?

[kazthefirst]

I was testing out the succubus/incubus new ability to produce a cambion after a successful seduction, and it seems like the chance is less than 10%. Considering how hard it is to successfully seduce even with the appropriate equipment, it basically means you may only see one or two cambions per game.

Why? You could make the chance 100% and all that would happen is that you get a handful of cambions by the time the endgame happens.

[Sombre]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

It looks like my analysis was not read, unfortunately, so here is a short of my conclusions. I think the target number of successful seductions is 3 for suc, 1 for inc, and there is a chance every turn when in friendly land to trigger the event (2 events each 10% for suc, 25% for inc) which removes 10 from the seduction count (min 0) and spawns a cambion.

Thanks crawlers, I had missed this.

[Bumc]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von powerfinder:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

It looks like my analysis was not read, unfortunately, so here is a short of my conclusions. I think the target number of successful seductions is 3 for suc, 1 for inc, and there is a chance every turn when in friendly land to trigger the event (2 events each 10% for suc, 25% for inc) which removes 10 from the seduction count (min 0) and spawns a cambion.

Thank you for the useful info. I'll try to use this in the next blood/glamour game. It turns out there is an interesting dilemma here: keep the seducers in friendly territory so that cambions appear, or send them to steal more mages.

Based on that knowledge incubus likely keep if they managed to get a maiden, succubus either count to 3 before keeping until they spawn an offspring or not bother at all.

[timlagor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

It looks like my analysis was not read, unfortunately, so here is a short of my conclusions. I think the target number of successful seductions is 3 for suc, 1 for inc, and there is a chance every turn when in friendly land to trigger the event (2 events each 10% for suc, 25% for inc) which removes 10 from the seduction count (min 0) and spawns a cambion.

So if you get a seduction with an Incubus you should keep them in your Dominion until they spawn? Or is there a time limit?

Am I right in thinking a 2-seduction succubus has no chance and a 4-seducer is no more likely to spawn than a 2s?

If it really is a simply switch like that then I'd suggest the game ought to tell you when your demon is gravid -otherwise it's just a big advantage for players knowing the mechanics at the expense of 'noobs'.

[kazthefirst]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sombre:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

It looks like my analysis was not read, unfortunately, so here is a short of my conclusions. I think the target number of successful seductions is 3 for suc, 1 for inc, and there is a chance every turn when in friendly land to trigger the event (2 events each 10% for suc, 25% for inc) which removes 10 from the seduction count (min 0) and spawns a cambion.

Thanks crawlers, I had missed this.

Yeh, I read the message but missed this. Useful info, and thanks.

[crawlers]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von timlagor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

snip

So if you get a seduction with an Incubus you should keep them in your Dominion until they spawn? Or is there a time limit?

Am I right in thinking a 2-seduction succubus has no chance and a 4-seducer is no more likely to spawn than a 2s?

If it really is a simply switch like that then I'd suggest the game ought to tell you when your demon is gravid -otherwise it's just a big advantage for players knowing the mechanics at the expense of 'noobs'.

There is no time limit (unless some other event is reducing seduction count over time, but I don't think it does this as it is probably treated in the same way as kills). Seeing how there are 2 events for inc with 25% chance each, it shouldn't take long at all for them (unlike suc who has 10% chances).

I have no reason to believe the event comprehends, much less cares about, how much count you are in excess of the required number. Thus a being with 30 count operates at the same speed as one with 3, and each cambion spawning removes 10 from this so the excess results in a lot of wasted count.

I looked around in the UI and I am yet to see anywhere that seduction count is displayed, so I think it is only visible with modding through events that check it and give an outcome. The lack of display combined with the wasted excess count makes it rather bothersome needing to memorize it for optimal cambion production.

That being said, people noticed cambions are 172 ish gold per year in upkeep right?

[kazthefirst]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von timlagor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

It looks like my analysis was not read, unfortunately, so here is a short of my conclusions. I think the target number of successful seductions is 3 for suc, 1 for inc, and there is a chance every turn when in friendly land to trigger the event (2 events each 10% for suc, 25% for inc) which removes 10 from the seduction count (min 0) and spawns a cambion.

So if you get a seduction with an Incubus you should keep them in your Dominion until they spawn? Or is there a time limit?

Am I right in thinking a 2-seduction succubus has no chance and a 4-seducer is no more likely to spawn than a 2s?

If it really is a simply switch like that then I'd suggest the game ought to tell you when your demon is gravid -otherwise it's just a big advantage for players knowing the mechanics at the expense of 'noobs'.

I mean, isn't the best part of Dominions the admin?

[kristoffer]

Hmm, IIRC the succubus is intended to have a greater chance of creating a cambion once she has seduced enough men.

The Incubus has a lower chance, but immediately producing offspring, only needing one successful seduction.

I'll have a look.

[Gabriebob]

it is worth noting that the scales only help for the Morale part of the dream seduction, don't forget to throw Penetration (heh) on your -Cubi to break that MR check as it does apply, i find i have a pretty high success rate and retention rate by going Scales, Focus (for that pen and fools luck) and a goss veil so i can script them to spam Charm in case a fight Does break out, it's Shocking how many enemy mages and priests i have gotten by the fight starting, the target getting Charmed, then the newly acquired unit either winning against the local forces or managing to retreat to a friendly province. but yes, remembering to throw in Pen to break that MR check helps Significantly.

[timlagor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

That being said, people noticed cambions are 172 ish gold per year in upkeep right?

I did see that but I didn't look at how good they actually are to see whether they're worth it (I expect people want to see them for the fun of the experience).

[crawlers]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kristoffer:

Hmm, IIRC the succubus is intended to have a greater chance of creating a cambion once she has seduced enough men.

The Incubus has a lower chance, but immediately producing offspring, only needing one successful seduction.

I'll have a look.

Please consider the severe upkeep on cambions far beyond what a comparable mage of their power would normally get, the wasteful reduction in seduction count (10 removed when needing only 1 or 3), and that there is no place in the ui that shows seduction count.

[kazthefirst]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von timlagor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

That being said, people noticed cambions are 172 ish gold per year in upkeep right?

I did see that but I didn't look at how good they actually are to see whether they're worth it (I expect people want to see them for the fun of the experience).

They are fun minor mages. Blood 1 and it looks like maybe a 25% or 50% random (I saw Earth 1 on one and Fire 1 on another). I wonder if the randoms are for all the elements? They also have a Dousing 1 bonus which is nice on a Blood 1, but with that upkeep I'm not filling my empire with them.

So kind of neat to add a little diversity, but they cost as much as a middle tier battle mage.

[crawlers]

They have 1 25% feg random and 2 25% fgb randoms. They also have a gold cost of autocalc + 35 but this doesn't explain why they got inflated to be compared to a 215 g mage. Maybe the game is really overestimating the power of their randoms.

[timlagor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kristoffer:

Hmm, IIRC the succubus is intended to have a greater chance of creating a cambion once she has seduced enough men.

The Incubus has a lower chance, but immediately producing offspring, only needing one successful seduction.

I'll have a look.

If I've understood it correctly it's not really a chance so much as a rate. Chance and chance/turn are very different things and chance/turn is extremely unintuitive for this.

I'd certainly have expected this to be a chance of triggering (immediately) after each seduction not a guaranteed state which then takes a random amount of time to produce.

[kazthefirst]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von timlagor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kristoffer:

Hmm, IIRC the succubus is intended to have a greater chance of creating a cambion once she has seduced enough men.

The Incubus has a lower chance, but immediately producing offspring, only needing one successful seduction.

I'll have a look.

If I've understood it correctly it's not really a chance so much as a rate. Chance and chance/turn are very different things and chance/turn is extremely unintuitive for this.

I'd certainly have expected this to be a chance of triggering (immediately) after each seduction not a guaranteed state which then takes a random amount of time to produce.

Playing around today with my now advanced knowledge of succubus care and breeding, I was seeing cambion from succubus hitting the 3 succcessful seductions taking around 1-5 turns after the third success. Mostly anecdotal as I was just messing around, but dedicated farms seem like they would take a lot of time to pay off. On the upside, at least being Glamour 2 means they can research while you wait it out.

Incubus were not tested.

[kazthefirst]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von crawlers:

They have 1 25% feg random and 2 25% fgb randoms. They also have a gold cost of autocalc + 35 but this doesn't explain why they got inflated to be compared to a 215 g mage. Maybe the game is really overestimating the power of their randoms.

Thanks for pulling the data. Cambions are a lot more exciting if there is a tiny chance of a F3.

They had sacred status before the latest patch, so I wonder if the upkeep was more manageable before that. Personally, I liked the idea of a nationless Blood sacred.