Ideas/Thoughts per Alternative Victory Conditions

[eddieballgame]

The group I have been playing multiplayer games with, dating back to DOM 4, has tried numerous ways to declare a winner for our sessions.
The reason is, that we play timed games of 60 turns (5 years) which last approximately 3 hours.
Since the Throne victory condition has been implemented, that has been our main focus/condition; to include using Cataclysm (on occasion) starting at turn 55...for example.
All has been fun, exciting, & annoying. :)
We are, currently, experimenting with some other ideas; such as...not using Thrones as a victory condition; but declaring the winner (after 60 turns & if still in the game) the one with the best Hero...who must be alive!
1 point for the most KILLS & 1 point with the most EXP; for a total of 2 points...yes, there could be ties.
Anyways, a new idea has come to mind & is as follows.

Let me preface this map setup; it is for our Sombre Warhammer games & a huge shoutout to Sombre for his, amazing/marvelous, work.

Using the Random Map Generator (btw, excellent...imho); create a 200 Province Map (& save, of course), NO SEAs, & Wrap Around, both E-W & N-S...most fair, again, imho.
Other settings, such as Mountain % can be adjusted per preference.

VICTORY CONDITIONS:

60 turn/5 year game (Cataclysm optional), 20 '1 pt' Thrones (1 per ten provinces) with 50 Ascension Pts Required.
After 60 turns 1 pt is rewarded to the player with the most Thrones, 1 pt is rewarded to the player with the Hero (alive) with the most Kills, & 1 pt is rewarded to the player with the Hero (alive) with the most EXP...for a total of 3 pts.
Btw, only purchased Commanders that become Heroes are eligible.
However, that can be...debated.
As an added option, depending on the number of players; any player that can eliminate another player will be declared the, immediate, victor!

Of course, there are numerous ways to address other methods to declare a winner, besides the excepted, existing ones...limited to, only, one's imagination.
Anyways, just sharing these ideas for anyone that may be interested & would, greatly, be appreciative of any & all critiques, suggestions, & thoughts...thank you.

[timlagor]

My impression is that the eliminate a player victory would happen long before turn 60 every time but maybe you have a very peaceful group.

Your single hero (does this include Pretenders?) also strikes me as an absolutely terrible way to choose a winner for this game -giving out maybe 3pts for two best heroes on a scheme where the winner gets to the teens counting other things (provinces, dominion, population, income, artefacts ...) could be OK but making it the whole game boggles the mind.

[Bumc]

It sounds like a fun minigame though. You have to carefully consider how to protect both your firestorm caster and your prime fighter and try to snipe enemy's.

Overall, in more casual groups having an alternative win condition, RP focus or some kind of restrictions on pvp do help a lot. You then are less likely get boggled down in the endless possibilities or get salty over diplomacy.

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by timlagor:

My impression is that the eliminate a player victory would happen long before turn 60 every time but maybe you have a very peaceful group.

Your single hero (does this include Pretenders?) also strikes me as an absolutely terrible way to choose a winner for this game -giving out maybe 3pts for two best heroes on a scheme where the winner gets to the teens counting other things (provinces, dominion, population, income, artefacts ...) could be OK but making it the whole game boggles the mind.

First, the group I play with is quite competent; translation...not easy to eliminate, particularly in 60 turns.
Second, adding a Hero/Heroes (not Pretenders, btw) combined with Thrones to determine a 'winner' is not, remotely, a terrible idea (imho) & certainly does not boggle our minds. :)
Understand, 'we' have been playing this game for over 10 years & have tried numerous ways to spice up our 60 turn games...apparently you have not & that is fine.
Again, this is just 1 of many ideas we have experimented with & many other games offer multiple ways to win, as well.
I will add; it would be nice if the categories in the Score Graph could be weighted in a way to offer other victory conditions, if desired...maybe a mod?
Btw, thank you for your critique/response.

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by Bumc:

It sounds like a fun minigame though. You have to carefully consider how to protect both your firestorm caster and your prime fighter and try to snipe enemy's.

Overall, in more casual groups having an alternative win condition, RP focus or some kind of restrictions on pvp do help a lot. You then are less likely get boggled down in the endless possibilities or get salty over diplomacy.

Completely agree & thank you. :)

[Red_Rob]

I would like to see a few more victory conditions available in the base game. Something I don't think is much talked about is how the victory conditions end up shaping the game.

The current setup of "control X Throne points at the end of any turn" means the optimal strategy is to buildup and then jump on a bunch of Thrones in one turn, even if you can't hold them long-term. While this is fine, it would be nice to have other objectives that would lead to different play styles.

"Whoever controls the most Throne points at the end of Turn X" would be a variant that would allow for controlled-length games whilst still having Thrones be the focus. The game would buildup to a big bunfight at the end as everyone knows when the cutoff point comes. Ties could be decided by most provinces owned, or capitals owned, or Dom candles etc.

Previous versions of Dominions had "Victory Points" tie to nation capitals. A "Capital Thrones" mode where holding nation capitals provided Throne points would simulate that, and would mean you actually have to eliminate players to win, not just nab a few indie-defended provinces.

You could also have Accumulating Points, where you get Throne Points each turn a Throne is claimed and need to hit a certain score to win. I'm imagining a map where there is a single Throne in the centre, and you need to hold it for say 20 total turns to win, so the game becomes about pushing people out of the Throne and trying to hold it for as long as possible.

I think these modes would all be fairly simple to add and would lead to some different gameplay. More esoteric modes such as Most Powerful Hero or Turn X Arena with the winner becoming Pantokrator would be a bit more out there, but could also be fun.

[eddieballgame]

Excellent suggestions, Red_Rob.

[Selgeron]

I played a tournament that was '2 points for every throne, 1 point for every capital'. I thought that was a lot of fun because it encouraged a little more fighting among each other.

You could also put in a dummy level 9 spell that doesn't do anything, but is worth 1 victory point to sort of give a 'research victory'. This is probably possible with mods- you could make the spell a ritual that when cast, creates a throne that you could claim in the province perhaps?

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by Selgeron:

I played a tournament that was '2 points for every throne, 1 point for every capital'. I thought that was a lot of fun because it encouraged a little more fighting among each other.

You could also put in a dummy level 9 spell that doesn't do anything, but is worth 1 victory point to sort of give a 'research victory'. This is probably possible with mods- you could make the spell a ritual that when cast, creates a throne that you could claim in the province perhaps?

Interesting idea on the 'research victory'. Because our group plays 60 turn games, 'we' set research to 'Very Easy'; so that would have to be adjusted a little. :)
I, do, like incorporating all/many of the categories listed in the Score Graph as contributing to a 'score victory'; to include 'best heroes' (not Pretenders) being awarded a point or two for their performance.
Call it an MVH award, if you will. (Most Valuable Hero)

[Tanaka]

Originally posted by Selgeron:

I played a tournament that was '2 points for every throne, 1 point for every capital'. I thought that was a lot of fun because it encouraged a little more fighting among each other.

You could also put in a dummy level 9 spell that doesn't do anything, but is worth 1 victory point to sort of give a 'research victory'. This is probably possible with mods- you could make the spell a ritual that when cast, creates a throne that you could claim in the province perhaps?

I like this mixture idea of both. Or you could do 2 points for caps 1 point for thrones or whatever. Wish the game would let you set points for both! Would make the victories less one dimensional aka throne rush...

[Legowarrior]

Originally posted by Red_Rob:

I would like to see a few more victory conditions available in the base game. Something I don't think is much talked about is how the victory conditions end up shaping the game.

The current setup of "control X Throne points at the end of any turn" means the optimal strategy is to buildup and then jump on a bunch of Thrones in one turn, even if you can't hold them long-term. While this is fine, it would be nice to have other objectives that would lead to different play styles.

"Whoever controls the most Throne points at the end of Turn X" would be a variant that would allow for controlled-length games whilst still having Thrones be the focus. The game would buildup to a big bunfight at the end as everyone knows when the cutoff point comes. Ties could be decided by most provinces owned, or capitals owned, or Dom candles etc.

Previous versions of Dominions had "Victory Points" tie to nation capitals. A "Capital Thrones" mode where holding nation capitals provided Throne points would simulate that, and would mean you actually have to eliminate players to win, not just nab a few indie-defended provinces.

You could also have Accumulating Points, where you get Throne Points each turn a Throne is claimed and need to hit a certain score to win. I'm imagining a map where there is a single Throne in the centre, and you need to hold it for say 20 total turns to win, so the game becomes about pushing people out of the Throne and trying to hold it for as long as possible.

I think these modes would all be fairly simple to add and would lead to some different gameplay. More esoteric modes such as Most Powerful Hero or Turn X Arena with the winner becoming Pantokrator would be a bit more out there, but could also be fun.

I do miss the ability to set up King of the Hill Games.

[timlagor]

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

Second, adding a Hero/Heroes (not Pretenders, btw) combined with Thrones to determine a 'winner' is not, remotely, a terrible idea (imho) & certainly does not boggle our minds. :)

"combined with Thrones" was completely absent from your original post.
My impression was that you were playing strictly for "best hero wins the game". Full Stop. No other points.

[eddieballgame]

Originally posted by timlagor:

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

Second, adding a Hero/Heroes (not Pretenders, btw) combined with Thrones to determine a 'winner' is not, remotely, a terrible idea (imho) & certainly does not boggle our minds. :)

"combined with Thrones" was completely absent from your original post.
My impression was that you were playing strictly for "best hero wins the game". Full Stop. No other points.

Fair enough, but if you had read the VICTORY CONDITIONS, you would have had a clearer understanding of what 'we' were going for.

[eddieballgame]

A member of 'my' group & I played a variation of the posted 'Victory Conditions' with adjusted total Thrones being 20 '1' pointers, & 10 '2' pointers. (1 per 7 Provinces)
Thus, the most Throne pts was in play vs the most Thrones.
Also, 'All Story Events' were enabled.
We did not complete the game, but came away with the thoughts that his was fun & will be playing this way again...for now. :)

[Sombre]

If you would like a mod that tells everyone the cumulative throne points generated for each nation every turn that's probably something I could make.

[Selgeron]

So I quickly made a mod that let you summon a throne- as a 'make a throne point' thing. It was kind of weird. If you summon the same throne you can summon it multiple times into a province, but if you claim in that province it claims all thrones in that provinces at once. Once you have a claimed throne in a province, any new thrones are automatically claimed.