Withering Weapons

[Seleucus I Nicator]

I'm a little confused as to what Withering Weapons is supposed to be used for. I assume it counters something or another, but I was wondering if experienced players could tell me how useful it is or isn't for them. It doesn't seem as powerful as some of the other weapon blesses, which I guess is why its not incarnate.

[superresistant]

Originally posted by Kamiyama:

stack ailments on troops instead of just killing them outright?

That's exactly the point: it is the counter to many situations where you cannot kill the unit outright: thug/SC/giants/hell bless/elves...

This will happen very often depending on the matchup. Many nations have weak or hard to use sacred units. Sometimes it's not worth it to add stats or damage, you just can't make it good enough.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

a good case would probably be something like LA Marignon, which has spammable sacred Flagellants and capital crossbow sacreds. Flagellants already kill most things through sheer damage and # of attacks, and withering will help maximize their sacred cruise-missile status by finishing off targets that survive.

[boozermonkey]

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

a good case would probably be something like LA Marignon, which has spammable sacred Flagellants and capital crossbow sacreds. Flagellants already kill most things through sheer damage and # of attacks, and withering will help maximize their sacred cruise-missile status by finishing off targets that survive.

Flagellants are niche but can be useful as kind of super chaff. They will die if something sneezes their way. You can craft a bless around them but it’s expensive and then you have to ask yourself why?

You get recruit anywhere chalice knights which are one of the best heavy cav in the game, so why would you waste a bless on flagellants when you should craft your bless around your best units.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

LA marignon doesn't get sacred knights, they get hands of justice, deliverers of justice, and flagellants

[ReconPete]

I've found some use for withering weapons when playing LA Agartha because all my blindfighters are incredibly slow and tanky. If I win the battle, many troops will be decayed but run away faster than I can catch them. I find it makes your army very "sticky". If you beat me you're gonna take a lot of attrition or if I win your retreat numbers will be low.

[Kamiyama]

Is there any interaction between Withering Weapons and DoT damage like poison and bleed? If so it would be nice if it applied the entire DoT instantly when the unit aged.

[Andkat]

Yeah if it had some fun synergies that'd make it more interesting

[crawlers]

Yes, slowing weapons applies slow to the unit which makes decay (and i think poison too) work half as fast. If the enemy is quickened, decay will work twice as fast.

This means it is best to not combine decay and slow weapons.

[Alias]

Originally posted by Glorf:

Is disease damage taking triggered by decay?

Yes, but only when the unit is Old.

[ExasperatedCultist]

Withering Weapons is bad.

The reason it's bad is fairly straightforward: It requires that you damage the unit, and it requires that they fail an MR check.

If you're already damaging them, then in the time that it takes for Withering Weapons to do something, you will very likely continue to damage them. In the time it takes for Withering Weapons to do a couple of points of damage, you will hit and likely injure the target again, likely killing them. You might speed up the killing a tiny bit, but not by much. Against those targets with a large HP pool, the decay will first of all take a good long while to do much of anything, while they stand there and keep hitting you in the face, and secondly, those targets typically have good MR, making it harder for the effect to apply in the first place. Even against troops with human-standard MR, it's only about 50% chance to apply on injury, and that chance gets much worse with Spell Ward or Antimagic.

Withering Weapons should be contrasted with +2 strength, which costs the same and is easier to get. If you take +2 strength, then any attack that would have applied the decay will instead do 2 more damage, at the very worst reduced to 1 more damage by physical resistance, though this is a non-factor in the vast majority of cases. There is no MR check associated with this, and unlike the Withering Weapons decay effect, hitting for More Damage stacks; if you injure them twice, then by golly you will do that extra damage twice. In fact, the +2 strength will allow you to damage on a number of attacks that previously wouldn't have, letting you trigger afflictions, pop twist fate etc. so much faster. The damage might even kill the target outright on an attack that would've applied decay with Withering.

Don't take Withering Weapons.

Withering Weapons is bad.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by ExasperatedCultist:

Don't take Withering Weapons.

Counterpoint:

Take whatever Bless is fun and / or interesting to you. ;)

[ExasperatedCultist]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Counterpoint:

Take whatever Bless is fun and / or interesting to you. ;)

Yes, yes, we can all shut down discussions by going "do what you want!!! :) :) :)", you're very intelligent.

Someone was asking what the bless was good for. It isn't.

[Draken]

@ExasperatedCultist

I agree that if you take Withering Weapons just for the damage, it is bad.

But the damage isn't the primary reason to take that bless. As others mentioned, it's mostly a deterrent.

But it can be very powerful on the battlefield as well.

If you have cheap sacreds it can easily ruin much more expensive sacreds or elite troops by aging them into old age. Troops that your own sacreds would not have been able to beat with a damage bonus from +2 Strength.

It's also a very good way to shut down certain Thugs or SCs. High regeneration versions of those for example often don't mind a bit of chip damage, but that changes very quickly if that chip damage inflicts decay.

It's actually one of the few ways to permanently ruining a non blood Pretender as old age stays even after they are recalled.

The small amount of direct damage during battle is more of a minor bonus.

Another point is that Withering Weapons is one of the cheapest weapon blesses as well as non incarnate.

So yeah, it's not as straightforward as just general increased damage from strenght, but it has it's use cases and isn't really a bad bless overal in my opinion.

[ExasperatedCultist]

I would never refrain from attacking someone on the basis that they had withering weapons. If their sacreds can't kill mine with +2 strength, then they die fast enough that the withering weapons is essentially a non-factor; an aged sacred is still a sacred. I've killed things with blind sacreds; I'm not gonna be fussed about one that's old.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by ExasperatedCultist:

Someone was asking what the bless was good for. It isn't.

Clearly, several people disagree.

Originally posted by ExasperatedCultist:

Yes, yes, we can all shut down discussions

Such as shutting down discussions by implying that others are inadequate or bad gamers, just because they take an option you don't personally like?