EA T'ien Ch'i Sword Masters

[anaris]

I can do something with 1 elemental and I can do something for sure with 2 linked random, but that seems like it wastes a sword and their second attacks and combat caster. Do they thug well, do you think? Is there anything that jumps out at anyone about them?

[Sturm]

T'ien Ch'i has really cost efficient national sword and armor items, I think that could be pretty good on the students, especially if they fluff themselves with the low path requirement self buffs. The 2 path foreignrec dude seems a bit too precious for army thugging I think, since it's your only reliable way to get 2 in a LOT of paths outside of your capital.

[anaris]

Hmm I'd forgotten about those, the Five Elements sword and armour dovetail with them really nicely. That plus a gem for personal regen or whatever could be neat right? I don't play much with humans, I'm really not sure where the breakpoints are.

Looking at the masters as "2 path mages that don't instantly melt to a flying unit" isn't an idea I hate, they're only 170 gold I just noticed.

[Quillithe]

They look pretty nice as battlemages for sure. My problem with EA T'ien Ch'i has been that the cap mages are very diverse and have great cross-paths but expensive and are obviously slow to stock. They're kinda wasted just acting like a E2 or A2, you're paying a huge premium. You can communion the Celestial masters but it's not easy to get slaves (unlike MA).

And then outside of the cap mages are expensive sacred mages without any really guaranteed strong spells for the cost.

But the Sword Masters have 2 which is my rough estimate for useful spells for any path (with the notable exception of astral where 1 is really useful) - they can do a LOT of what any particular Master of the Five Elements can.

Funny thing is at first I glanced at them wrong and thought they had 2 separate randoms which IMO might have been more interesting. Less reliable magic power but the ones with two paths would have been interesting as army thugs.

[anaris]

EA TC now gets 1/4 astral on Student of the Way, who are available in all forts AND outside forts, which makes communion a lot more accessible (though still not as much as MA).

And yeah I didn't initially realise how cheap they are - student swords with path 1 are 70 gold (cheap enough to throw away), and the masters are only 170 with a guaranteed 2 in one element of the Way, so you're hardly paying a premium for their weapons and nonzero attack scores. It seems like a shame to just use them as mages though - Chinese sword saints are a Whole Trope

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by anaris:

EA TC now gets 1/4 astral on Student of the Way, who are available in all forts AND outside forts, which makes communion a lot more accessible (though still not as much as MA).

Oh yeah, didn't notice how much better those got. Students of the Way being cheaper than old Masters of the Way despite the mage cost increase is big (losing the holy path is pretty unimportant).


It is definitely a little unfortunate how high skill low armor human combatants like this have a tough time finding a role, despite the trope.

Still restating that mixed paths would have been more interesting for this since single elemental paths give so many self buffs, and having the 2E ones cast earth buffs while the 1F1E did a fire shield/ironskin/attack with some national gear might have been a more fun mix than them all ending up as battlemages.]

...though I'm still getting used to air losing half of its absurd self buffs.

[anaris]

Try Glamour, if you haven't. There are some classics from Air, it's the new home for lucks and Charm, and check out Simulacrum, which is almost a repeatable twiceborn.

I'm about to try a little squad of naked Students of the Way against indies to see what happens

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by anaris:

Try Glamour, if you haven't. There are some classics from Air, it's the new home for lucks and Charm, and check out Simulacrum, which is almost a repeatable twiceborn.

I'm about to try a little squad of naked Students of the Way against indies to see what happens

Yeah I've tried it out some, it's just something I need to check sometimes because I'm used to thinking A1 has mirror image which it doesn't any more.

Love the change, just...shakes things up. MA Man has been spamming lightning spells for 20 years, but no more!

MA Phaeacia lost any fire access for its fire national summons!

Nature mages can't spam charm

Heh, just haven't played enough 6 yet to fully get out of old habits about what is where.

[Emphyrio]

The masters look like very efficient combat casters, and they get super-elite stats matched by few other units in the game. The students get elite stats for only a 5 gold premium over a regular 1-path mage and they still have the stun. Only thing is that the other units with these high stats all have more survivability, a lot more prot at least. Random arrows and evos are gonna wipe them if you put them on the front line. I don't think we'll see much use of these for their melee and close-range caster abilities except as niche counters to certain units.

[anaris]

Yeah I agree, they're not great against numbers without buffs and gear, but they'll make TC's mage batteries a lot more difficult to pick off and a foreignrec 2 elemental is an asset to an expansion too

[ulzgoroth]

Upgrading prot is pretty easy to do if you're willing to spare some gems...and potentially accept some encumbrance. Which is probably worth it if you want to be going into melee.

If you don't want to be swording, well, most mages without gear or buffs are at or near zero prot.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Upgrading prot is pretty easy to do if you're willing to spare some gems...and potentially accept some encumbrance. Which is probably worth it if you want to be going into melee.

If you don't want to be swording, well, most mages without gear or buffs are at or near zero prot.

In particular a hammer makes the national armor 2 gems total. And another 2 can get reinvig 2 and a magic attack from the national sword.

[ulzgoroth]

I'd think you'd want a helmet, too, which I think there might not be a national discount on. (But a 5-gem helmet produced with a hammer is still pretty cheap.)

[Nunda]

You get a discount on chi shoes if you really want to go premium on thugs and give them a third attack.

[ulzgoroth]

Chi shoes go a lot better on superhuman thugs than the skilled humans in question, don't they?

(Currently using them on Dai-Oni, who badly need the extra attack but have more than enough kick behind that kick.)

[Nunda]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Chi shoes go a lot better on superhuman thugs than the skilled humans in question, don't they?

You could say that about pretty much every item, but yes. A dancing trident would be better than chi shoes, just more expensive because of the national discount on chi shoes.