Clockwork soldiers and horrors

[Demonsthenes]

I was testing units for raiding PD with various summons in dom5 a while ago, and discovered that the lower research clockwork units are completely ineffective; with -15 reinvigoration, they end up fatiguing out quite far before making contact even if you put them at the front with orders to charge, and generally only get ~3-4 attacks in before falling asleep; even the more killy clockwork horrors don't accomplish anything. And then they start taking damage from excessive fatigue at 200; and in several tests they'd even rout the PD but then all of them would die from fatigue damage during the battle cleanup phase.

This probably will get worse with the bigger battle maps in dom6. I think the fix is to reduce the penalty to something in the 5-8 range, such that the units are on a timer to do something (i.e. they will fatigue out naturally, unlike other constructs). 5 would mean they are not at risk of taking fatal fatigue damage given the native 1+4 reinvigoration from being asleep, but I think 7 or so might better fit the unit's vibe.

They might also deserve higher base stats, to account for the fact that they will almost certainly have accumulated a fatigue penalty to attack and defense by the time they make it into melee. I sorta have the idea that the clockwork mechanism has a lot of power until it runs out of winding power, and thus they should be better at the start of the battle than the tireless Mechanical Men at higher research.

Small side thought: it'd be thematic and awesome if Daedalus' Clockwork Lord ability applied to the bigger construct unit summons (like Iron Dragons) too. And also Daedalus has weirdly low MR of 12; I would have thought it would match that of a normal Mage Engineer at least.

[junkmail4mjd]

agreed

[Franknfurter]

I agree, clockwork units need something.

I would love for Clockwork units to become useful, or at least interesting and thematic.

Mechanical Militia could also encourage the use of construction and clockwork summons offensively, perhaps adding additional effects:
Mages cast Construction spells as if two levels higher (nature 1 mages can make lumber constructs, earth mages get +1-2 clockwork units per cast)
Add a physical location to the ritual with some offensive utility like freespawning constructs - lumber in forests, clockwork horrors in farmland. Unit amount and good roll chance scaling with province resources and gold, making a rare Orichalcum mine the best spot to create Mechanical Militia.

For clockwork units specifically I would actually increase the reinvigoration penalty rather than reducing the reinvigoration penalty, but pair it with a mechanic to reset to 0 fatigue when taking fatigue damage so they have X turns moving and attacking, X turns asleep until they die from fatigue damage being rewound:

"Rewind clockwork" [number]
On taking damage from exceeding 200 fatigue, reset fatigue to 0.

To avoid Divine Name/shroud/empower exploits this could apply only for the first [number] times equal to unit base HP so it only makes a difference for commanders.
Units would still die in prolonged battles but may be rewound a few times (if they aren't smashed while above 100 fatigue) to chase down retreating units so they don't all die to PD slowly limping off the battlefield.

Clockwork Horror changes:
ambidextrous 2 (like the iron corpse/ancestor line of units with built-in attacks)
Blade hand changes:
+2 attack (jerky unpredictable movements), or
-1 attack, nb of attacks 2 (a clumsy walking blender)
add Material composition: Ferrous, Iron weapon (rust should be possible)

I like clockwork units to be sporadic, alternating between lethal and harmless, with a stop-start rhythm to their attacks that makes them behave differently in battle compared to high encumbrance units like Blindfighters and Living Pillars.

[Butcher]

Hot take: mindless undeads and automatons should never get fatigued.

[Draken]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Hot take: mindless undeads and automatons should never get fatigued.

I think the clockwork automatons are basically wind up mechanisms. The fatigue system is just used to simulate that.

As for the undead, yep. Though probably also depends on the undead. Some of the more spiritual based undead I can see getting exhausted. Not in body, but more in mind and will as they use that to move.

[Sombre]

A lot of dominions undead do have 0 enc and typically don't get fatigued.

[superresistant]

I don't think the purpose of clockworks is to kill. They can be a wall of resistant and mindless units that block other units from reaching the mages.

Originally posted by Demonsthenes:

even the more killy clockwork horrors don't accomplish anything

In my experience, they can be fast enough to reach the archer or mage line. Then they'll one hit kill so they don't need many tries.

[teekay15]

A 7hp unit at 100 fatigue isnt a wall. Prot 18 at fatigue 100 is paper thin.

[Big Dog]

Doesn't relief work on them? Which is weird IMO.

[TheIronBird]

clockworks definitely need some love.
bit less fatigue being most critical.
one thing i could see for them, what if there were tag that could make a unit immune to critical hits?
(which is what makes clockworks useless as soon as their fatigue builds up, attacking units are practically guaranteed critical hits which negate fal the recieving units prot)
if clockworks had some kind of "no critical organs" tag or something that made them immune to critical hits they could still be a decent wall even when passed out

[TheIronBird]

Originally posted by High Stakes:

Doesn't relief work on them? Which is weird IMO.

this might already be changed in 6, believe there was mention that relief wont work on undead. so i'd assume it also doesnt work on lifeless units either.