Delta force and US inf in general

[Jide Aurelius]

Anyone feel like Delta force are completely useless?

[FloridamanActual]

Publicado originalmente por DracoAvian:

Soviet doctrine generally has special forces as the tip of the spear. They are supposed to be tough and hard hitting. They're the first ones in. VDV and Spetznaz are mean. That's what they do. Nato special forces generally follow the doctrine of defense in depth. Rather than fighting to the last man they prefer to pull out and use stealth to survive. They can then feed recce information to their commanders and perform hit-and-run raids. If you put your deltas in cheap choppers, fly them half-way across the map, stay in cover, and start CV hunting then they'll earn their keep. They're not gonna do it outnumbered 10 to 1 by trained enemy combatants. Fight smart, bleed less.

Thats the case for every SF, were talking about how crappy Delta are in comparison. As with everythinf russian, there is hype about how "tough" or "mean" Spetznaz are. If one takes a bullet he will die just as fast as his NATO counterpart...

[FloridamanActual]

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Honestly, I have a quick little proposal for Deltas. Since they are supposed to be some of the most Regarded Special Forces teams on the planet, I propose the following : A '90's version with M4A1 Carbines, A sniper rifle of some sort, and maybe an M240b? or other type of machine gun for CQC?

This proposal makes them able to take on Infantry and mostly Other special forces in general since a sniper can do a LOT of damage to them. Maybe this can be a Barret .50 to even counter light vehicles?

(being that for the most part SF teams are very small, This will be a good, ranged counter to them.) And they're still countered by armor of any kind. They'll Have killing power, Uniqueness, and a new way to approach enemy SF teams.


the SEALS can be your "Sneaky sneaky" SF having the powerful AT to go behind enemy lines. Maybe switching their roles completely? Idk, just a thought I had that I figured could take form or maybe not, just wanted to get it out there.

Good suggestion but I honestly think all they need is a new fully automatic Carbine, M4A1, a solid AT/AA weapon, Stinger or AT4, and a new 5.56Mil MG, Minimi offshoot. This would be in a 90' configuration and would stay the same price due to the lack of a 15 man squad or Napalm launcher.

[FOODLEBOB]

Publicado originalmente por maldoror:

Army Rangers should be a shock infantry type, not a scout type.

Holy crap I love you. This has been my biggest problem with both this and ALB. Rangers are the assualt units for the Army, going places that normal infantry don't cut it. They should swap places with Delta, and then up their squad size. Delta should not be line infantry, and currently they can't even do that.

[Rococo Era]

I always liked Delta in ALB. give them an m240 and at4 for the 90 version and they will be fine in this game.

[NODE]

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Lol, you completely ignored what I said about Deltas. You're probly just another one of those spetznaz abusers that carries 2 cards of them in their deck and spams them abso-♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-lutely EVERYWHERE.

Of course I ignored it, because Delta's are fine the way they are. The only reason why they seem to suck is because people use them on the frontline fighting where they're supposed to have the cheap or generic infantry fight at. In what world do you live in to see the US put delta forces with the Army in a combat zone? Put them somewhere on the side hunting for AA or close motor’s, or behind the lines as I’ve always seen players do trying to destory a CV.

You have them fighting in war when they're really meant to do one job and get the ♥♥♥♥ out, They always shine best messing ♥♥♥♥ up behind lines where players pay attention to less.

And I’m one of those who spam spetznas squads? Well since everyone seems to think the word “spamming” means “to use”, then yes I could be in your possibly horrible definition of spamming. Hell, I was even accused of spamming artillery yesterday when I only had one damn buratino in my deck. So forgive me for using what I was provided. You can ♥♥♥♥♥ about that tactic being cheap all you want, because I’ve seen NATO players handle spetznas squads with ease and keep charging.

Cry all you want. But so far it just seems you guys are using delta’s wrong and don’t know how to handle spetznas.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

You also missed the point that they have as much damn suppresion as a BOMBING RUN. 250 suppresion. You know what that means? they KILL LIGHT TANKS smart one. Even with infantry support. It's laughable.

RPO lunachers, High suppresion since EE.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

I've had a squad (10-15 guys) of panzer grens or even US marines INSTA-killed by one shot of an RPO from a Spetz team.

Hmmmmm..... I think I see a problem here in this...

OH! YOU DIDN'T HAVE A DAMN TANK!

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

And before you say anything, NO they were NOT on their own, they had plenty of support from other inf and mortars. None of that matters though, since spetz can simply destroy any sort of coordinated assault if they are supported by anything.

I won't blame the spetz there. I blame the player you were playing against. He won that battle because he had a strategy that was superior to your defense. You lost because of the player, not because of OP units.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Just because something has been so blatantly unbalanced for so long makes it ok? They will stun lock any tank in the game and have a chance to kill it. They will also kill aNY infantry in the game.

No unbalancing there, you just need to adapt to the situation.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

YES that's their one role, but you know what? If that one Spetz team gets surrounded by 50 or more inf (mostly being shock inf) that doesn't mean they should ABSOLUTELY destroy all of them and remain unphased due to stun locking. I mean come on dude are you even listening to yourself? that leaves it's only HARD counters to bombers and arty.

Lol, now you’re just over exaggerating it.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Good luck hitting an SF squad with arty, and bombers will get shot down by any 1/2 competent player, in which they are if they're spamming spetz. Give it a rest dude, The only way you can possibly kill these bastards with anything short of a tank column or nighthawk is if they run out of their RPOs.

I had no problemo hitting SF's with my Buratino or M10's, I get like four and target each one individually for a much better spread.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Then it's game over. Try using them without RPOs and see how much more careful you have to be with them. They're supposed to be special forces not rape machines.

Lol,

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Every other special forces unit ingame has to be used cautiously and reserved (with the exception of falls and they got nerfed). That means every other nation has to tip toe around while Spetz/Li Jians can hop into one city and take out swaths of inf. Give me a break. Seeing a pattern here?

Sound like something NATO is suppose to do with their speical forces. Send them to places and have them seek around to suppress their enemy. Works very well with players who tries to make it work.

[Rococo Era]

The only Specops ive ever not been able to take out with Delta are Komandosi and Spetsnaz. I think that seems pretty balanced. The law needs to go though

[Алзксі Венс]

Delta Force ♥♥♥♥ up infantry and armor in cities, you guys are doing it wrong.

[DarthHammer]

Here's a proposed re-roll for the US Commando/Recon/Infantry units.

Recon.

Delta Force on Special Reconnaissance duty.
- 2 man, Very Good vision, Elite trained Recon Commandos with Assault Rifle and KE/AP sinper rifle. (Barret M82 or M95.) Deploy from Humvee, UH-1H, UH-60A, or CH-47C. Useable with all deck specializations.

Marine Force Recon.
- 5 man, Very Good vision, Elite trained Recon Commandos with Assault Rifles, LAW, and SAW. Deploy from Humvee, LAV-25, UH-1N, and CH-46. Only available to Marine decks.

US Army Cavalry Scouts.
- 5 man, Very Good vision, Regular trained Recon Infantry with Assualt Rifles, LAW, and LMG. Deploy from Humvee, all Bradley variants, UH-1H, UH-60A, or CH-47C. Useable by all decks except Marine.

US Navy Seals. (With 90s variant.)
- 5 man, Very Good vision, Elite trained Recon Commandos with Assualt Rifles, Grenade Launcher, and SAW. Deploy from Humvee, UH-1N, and CH-46. Available to all decks except Armored and Mechanized.
- (90s) Upgraded Assault Rifles, grenade launcher replaced with LAW, and SAW replaced with MANPAD. Same transport and availability.

Infantry.

US Army Special Forces (Green Berets) on Direct Action duty. (With 90s variant.)
- 10 man, Good vision, Elite trained Commando Infantry with Assault Rifles, LAW, and SAW. Deploy form Humvee, UH-1H, UH-60A, or CH-47C. Useable with all deck specializations except Armored.
- (90s) Equipped with upgraded AR, M270 Napalm launcher, and upgraded SAW. Same availabilty and transport as standard.

101st Airborne (simply called 'Airborne' in game.) (With 90s variant.)
- 10 man, Shock trained Rifle Infantry with Assualt Rifles, LAW, and SAW. Deploy from Humvee, UH-1H, UH-60A, or CH-47C. Only useable in Airborne deck specializations.
- (90s) Upgrade of all equipped weapons. Same transport and availabilty.

US Army Rangers. ('Rangers' in game.) (With 90s variant.)
- 10 man, Shock trained Rifle Infantry with Assault Rifles, LAW, and LMG. Deploy from Deploy from Humvee, all Bradley variants or CH-47C. Available to all decks except Marine, Armored and Airborne.
- (90s) Upgraded AR and LAW, and LMG. Same transport and availabilty.

US Army National Guard.
- 10 man, Milita trained Reserve Infantry with Assault Rifles, LAW, and LMG. Deploy from Humvee, M113A1, and M113A3. Only available to Support decks.

Other units.

Rifleman are no longer available to Airborne decks, and cannot be transported by UH-1H or UH-60A.

Marines and SMAW can now deploy from the CH-46.

Light Infantry, Mountaineers, and MANPAD teams remain unchanged.

[HerrMaus3r]

Publicado originalmente por Joker:

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Lol, you completely ignored what I said about Deltas. You're probly just another one of those spetznaz abusers that carries 2 cards of them in their deck and spams them abso-♥♥♥♥♥♥♥-lutely EVERYWHERE.

Of course I ignored it, because Delta's are fine the way they are. The only reason why they seem to suck is because people use them on the frontline fighting where they're supposed to have the cheap or generic infantry fight at. In what world do you live in to see the US put delta forces with the Army in a combat zone? Put them somewhere on the side hunting for AA or close motor’s, or behind the lines as I’ve always seen players do trying to destory a CV.

You have them fighting in war when they're really meant to do one job and get the ♥♥♥♥ out, They always shine best messing ♥♥♥♥ up behind lines where players pay attention to less.

And I’m one of those who spam spetznas squads? Well since everyone seems to think the word “spamming” means “to use”, then yes I could be in your possibly horrible definition of spamming. Hell, I was even accused of spamming artillery yesterday when I only had one damn buratino in my deck. So forgive me for using what I was provided. You can ♥♥♥♥♥ about that tactic being cheap all you want, because I’ve seen NATO players handle spetznas squads with ease and keep charging.

Cry all you want. But so far it just seems you guys are using delta’s wrong and don’t know how to handle spetznas.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

You also missed the point that they have as much damn suppresion as a BOMBING RUN. 250 suppresion. You know what that means? they KILL LIGHT TANKS smart one. Even with infantry support. It's laughable.

RPO lunachers, High suppresion since EE.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

I've had a squad (10-15 guys) of panzer grens or even US marines INSTA-killed by one shot of an RPO from a Spetz team.

Hmmmmm..... I think I see a problem here in this...

OH! YOU DIDN'T HAVE A DAMN TANK!

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

And before you say anything, NO they were NOT on their own, they had plenty of support from other inf and mortars. None of that matters though, since spetz can simply destroy any sort of coordinated assault if they are supported by anything.

I won't blame the spetz there. I blame the player you were playing against. He won that battle because he had a strategy that was superior to your defense. You lost because of the player, not because of OP units.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Just because something has been so blatantly unbalanced for so long makes it ok? They will stun lock any tank in the game and have a chance to kill it. They will also kill aNY infantry in the game.

No unbalancing there, you just need to adapt to the situation.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

YES that's their one role, but you know what? If that one Spetz team gets surrounded by 50 or more inf (mostly being shock inf) that doesn't mean they should ABSOLUTELY destroy all of them and remain unphased due to stun locking. I mean come on dude are you even listening to yourself? that leaves it's only HARD counters to bombers and arty.

Lol, now you’re just over exaggerating it.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Good luck hitting an SF squad with arty, and bombers will get shot down by any 1/2 competent player, in which they are if they're spamming spetz. Give it a rest dude, The only way you can possibly kill these bastards with anything short of a tank column or nighthawk is if they run out of their RPOs.

I had no problemo hitting SF's with my Buratino or M10's, I get like four and target each one individually for a much better spread.

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Then it's game over. Try using them without RPOs and see how much more careful you have to be with them. They're supposed to be special forces not rape machines.

Lol,

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Every other special forces unit ingame has to be used cautiously and reserved (with the exception of falls and they got nerfed). That means every other nation has to tip toe around while Spetz/Li Jians can hop into one city and take out swaths of inf. Give me a break. Seeing a pattern here?

Sound like something NATO is suppose to do with their speical forces. Send them to places and have them seek around to suppress their enemy. Works very well with players who tries to make it work.

Hahahaha, That's right Don't ACTUALLY bother to read the whole post, just take ♥♥♥♥ out of context and make me look like an idiot. You should really work on your reading comprehension skills, bud. I'm not going to bother respdonding to you anymore. You're nothing but a troll on this discussion and you've now made that painfully obvious with your total lack of understanding simple concepts in this game. Ignore that Deltas have the same stats as Rifles except the carbine and their "elite" tag, and the fact that they only have 2 transports. Whatever, I'm done replaying to you, you're obviously not bringing anything constructive to the table.

[FloridamanActual]

The US Marines were actualy just buffed? However them and Delta Force still seem quite outmatched when it comes to other units. BUFF=5 Point reduction in price... Not what was needed but ok

[George H.W. Bush]

Publicado originalmente por rQ DON:

The US Marines were actualy just buffed? However them and Delta Force still seem quite outmatched when it comes to other units. BUFF=5 Point reduction in price... Not what was needed but ok

And They got the phrog so theres one complaint buried under 30,000 threads XD

[FloridamanActual]

Publicado originalmente por 7th AEUH4didact:

Publicado originalmente por rQ DON:

The US Marines were actualy just buffed? However them and Delta Force still seem quite outmatched when it comes to other units. BUFF=5 Point reduction in price... Not what was needed but ok

And They got the phrog so theres one complaint buried under 30,000 threads XD

Yea thats a nice addition

[NODE]

Publicado originalmente por HerrMaus3r:

Hahahaha, That's right Don't ACTUALLY bother to read the whole post, just take ♥♥♥♥ out of context and make me look like an idiot.

Lol, you're such a fool.

In order for me to replay to your post in broken down parts, like I have, I've to read your entire post word from word.


It's too bad you're done, because you really haven't provided much reason as to why the delta's need a buff nor why spetz need to be nerfed. Everything everyone stated so far only shows they are using the unit for the wrong reasons.

[KilluH]

they werent so useless at waco. i believe the "perfectly good airplane" crowd was represented.

[Inevitable Pain]

If your infantry isn't working then you're using it wrong. Stop charging tanks with them.