Wargame: Red Dragon

Wargame: Red Dragon

Tow missiles for me have a 1/10 hit ratio. This is for all tow variants
When fighting enemy tanks, My bradleys tow missiles miss to many times to be considered 70% accuracy (tow 2 variant). Are tanks just immune to tow missiles or are the stats on it inaccurate? Tow missiles work fine on infantry transports and some cheap vechiles.
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Pat Mar 30, 2016 @ 3:22am 
Anything can interrupt the guidance including movement and even a momentary line of sight interruption.

The stats may be slightly inaccurate but TOW-2 missiles hit often enough for me.
Sirsucksalot Mar 30, 2016 @ 7:36am 
That's why you don't use guided missiles. xd
Mew Tea Mar 30, 2016 @ 9:23am 
in real life tank have very terrible sights, ATGM are a perfect weapon for attacking frontal or ambushing them, yet, in game players are gods that can see everything , and 0 sec of commanding delays, lets see is ATGM still that useless if theres a commanding delays.
(rant)
Admiral Obvious Mar 30, 2016 @ 10:41am 
All ATGM's have multiple "hit rolls" to determine wether or not the shot will hit something. If, for example the bradley loses sight of a T-72 it's shooting at, it will try to retarget to ht something else, like a near truck or something. That process requires another hit roll. Then, the game does these checks every second the missile is in flight, so depending on how fast the missile is, a 70% chance has a pretty high chance to land within the 30% chance range, especially over 4 or 5 checks. It's probably the main reason ATGM's are not even close to their listed stat values than essentially every other unit.
Geeves Mar 30, 2016 @ 11:01am 
Originally posted by Admiral Obvious:
All ATGM's have multiple "hit rolls" to determine wether or not the shot will hit something. If, for example the bradley loses sight of a T-72 it's shooting at, it will try to retarget to ht something else, like a near truck or something. That process requires another hit roll. Then, the game does these checks every second the missile is in flight, so depending on how fast the missile is, a 70% chance has a pretty high chance to land within the 30% chance range, especially over 4 or 5 checks. It's probably the main reason ATGM's are not even close to their listed stat values than essentially every other unit.

Um... that is not how ATGM's work in the game at all.

You lose sight of a target, the missile misses 100% of the time. There is no re-targeting.

It also does not "re-roll" every second while it is in flight.

If it worked the way you described, then after 6 checks your chances of hitting would be down to 5%. ATGM's would basically never hit.
Last edited by Geeves; Mar 30, 2016 @ 11:11am
Mew Tea Mar 30, 2016 @ 11:53am 
Originally posted by Admiral Obvious:
All ATGM's have multiple "hit rolls" to determine wether or not the shot will hit something. If, for example the bradley loses sight of a T-72 it's shooting at, it will try to retarget to ht something else, like a near truck or something. That process requires another hit roll. Then, the game does these checks every second the missile is in flight, so depending on how fast the missile is, a 70% chance has a pretty high chance to land within the 30% chance range, especially over 4 or 5 checks. It's probably the main reason ATGM's are not even close to their listed stat values than essentially every other unit.


false, please read the wargame : red dragon manual ,
or tutorial 101 before you put on such misinformation.


every missile (ATGM, AAM, GAM) have different flight speed, and the hit rate depends on
the sights, morale and the range, example, below unit info (health bar), will shows you the
current ammo/weapon hiting rate, and the hit rate shows in info its basic hit rate, and can be
incress by unit level/vetrency, and range, and no, any missile will not retarget during the flight.

if it lose sight, its a false shot, wont hit anything, but the wasted missile probaby will hit
something friendly, i put my all antiship units all together very closly, and they friendly fire
and killed themself, same as eyrx fire support infantry, they will misfire and hit thier own foot,
cause panic, and get killed by that idiotcy.


about false shot, the FaF (fire and forget) will flight to target once its fired, it ignore the misfire that cause by operater.

if FaF not hitting target, too bad, better shot another shot. (cringe)


and if we really have to into this, theres such a thing call *more then 100% hit rate*.

and what it does? i dunno, probably so accurate that your cannon or fire path is
incorrect and causing unable to fire, and why that? well, its wargame thingy.
Last edited by Mew Tea; Mar 30, 2016 @ 11:57am
Admiral Obvious Mar 30, 2016 @ 1:17pm 
That's what i was told, sorry if it was false. I'm not 100% sure the manual is completely accurate anymore.

I've never seen a blue on blue in this game that wasn't intentional either.

From what i've seen, if the ATGM loses it's initial target, it can pick hit a different enemy target. If it picks up on the target that was lost, it will do a reroll, apparently, for another chance to hit. There was a change at some point down the line that allowed for this, not sure when, but it can, and does happen.

Also accuracy stops at I believe 85% or 90%, after that it's rolled into the critical hit chance.
GrandHardy Mar 30, 2016 @ 1:26pm 
I've heard of the re-rolls as it flies towards the object but never the locking onto an alternative target and i've certainly never seen it do such.
Mew Tea Mar 30, 2016 @ 1:37pm 
Originally posted by Admiral Obvious:
That's what i was told, sorry if it was false. I'm not 100% sure the manual is completely accurate anymore.

I've never seen a blue on blue in this game that wasn't intentional either.

From what i've seen, if the ATGM loses it's initial target, it can pick hit a different enemy target. If it picks up on the target that was lost, it will do a reroll, apparently, for another chance to hit. There was a change at some point down the line that allowed for this, not sure when, but it can, and does happen.

Also accuracy stops at I believe 85% or 90%, after that it's rolled into the critical hit chance.


well, what i have played so far, its lock and shot, and if, please , if you see anything
like what you describe happened, please do record or have a image or soemthing, or
we can just ask Dev you know, instead guessing A B C, they will give straight answer.


theres no such thing as locking alternative target, you can try that by using a longbow,
even more clear that, it shot two rounds a time, wasteful, and when it miss the target,
well, its whole another story.

in my opinion, dev do mess up some parts, but they never was aiming realistic anyway,
cant blame them.

played european escalation, you see that ATGM speed? dam, thats some sadnees right there.
Last edited by Mew Tea; Mar 30, 2016 @ 1:37pm
Admiral Obvious Mar 30, 2016 @ 1:48pm 
I can't really record since my graphics card got fried.

All my instances of "retargeting" are in cases in which its plausible the missile was aimed at the hit target either way. A rather recent example being that a Meyts swaying wide of a M41 to hit a M113. It looked like the M41 was the target, but it hit the 5 point transport instead.

Then there was this other totally seperate thing where a Vulcan and a HAWK were firing at a jet. The Vulcan got the kill, and the HAWK missile landed on a fire support team, almost completely killing it because of how early the launch was.
Mew Tea Mar 30, 2016 @ 2:04pm 
Originally posted by Admiral Obvious:
I can't really record since my graphics card got fried.

All my instances of "retargeting" are in cases in which its plausible the missile was aimed at the hit target either way. A rather recent example being that a Meyts swaying wide of a M41 to hit a M113. It looked like the M41 was the target, but it hit the 5 point transport instead.

Then there was this other totally seperate thing where a Vulcan and a HAWK were firing at a jet. The Vulcan got the kill, and the HAWK missile landed on a fire support team, almost completely killing it because of how early the launch was.

thats unfortune about your video card, well, there are rare case that burned missile accidently
hit the other target that not intented , even friendly fire, but fire at other target, probably is
graphical issue, that misshows the icon on wrong target, ask dev then, out of my zone.
Last edited by Mew Tea; Mar 30, 2016 @ 2:04pm
Geeves Mar 30, 2016 @ 2:55pm 
Originally posted by Admiral Obvious:
I can't really record since my graphics card got fried.

All my instances of "retargeting" are in cases in which its plausible the missile was aimed at the hit target either way. A rather recent example being that a Meyts swaying wide of a M41 to hit a M113. It looked like the M41 was the target, but it hit the 5 point transport instead.

Then there was this other totally seperate thing where a Vulcan and a HAWK were firing at a jet. The Vulcan got the kill, and the HAWK missile landed on a fire support team, almost completely killing it because of how early the launch was.

This is 100% how it works in the game:

hit/miss is determined the exact moment the ATGM is fired.

If it is a miss, it will fire in the general direction of the target and at some point along its path just randomly fly in any direction. If it hits something, it is by accident. ATGM's corkscrewing around, looking like they are going after one thing but then hitting another is 100% normal, and pure coincidence that what you thought it was going for happened to be in its flight path. I guarantee that the original target was the 5pt transport that it actually hit, and not the M41.

If it is a hit, at any moment while it is in flight (except for F&F) if you lose visual on the target, the hit changes to miss. If you do not lose sight, it hits. It does not ever retarget. You are imagining things. Also, sometimes when the game determines that it is a hit, but the angle is too great for the missile to actually hit (I have only ever seen this with ATGM aircraft firing their missiles when they are facing away from the target), it will actually miss. The game does not teleport missiles just because the numbers say it should have hit.

Any missile with any sort of HE value can kill what it lands on/near when it misses. This includes AA missiles missing and hitting the ground. Your HAWK missile did not retarget, it just randomly landed on something.
Last edited by Geeves; Mar 30, 2016 @ 3:00pm
GrandHardy Mar 30, 2016 @ 4:59pm 
It has been discussed in other threads that there ATGM will reroll as it flies towards it's target.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/251060/discussions/0/392183857620366235/

I don't know if it's true or not, but it may be worth checking with someone who knows.
orcbuster Mar 30, 2016 @ 5:09pm 
It's complicated, this was explained by FLX (one of the devs on the Eugen forums) not too long ago Because no one was certain how this actually worked.

The ATGM Rolls to hit several times as it flies towards it's target at set time intervals. But if it misses one of its rolls it does not ensure a miss. instead it will keep going and roll to hit again at the next interval unless it goes too much of course. The decicive roll is the one that that takes place closest to the tank before missing/hitting it.
orcbuster Mar 30, 2016 @ 5:11pm 
here is the actual explanation

"You don't have to get series of hit to actually it the target because if you roll a hit after having rolled a series of miss the missile will fly toward its target and hit it.

In WEE the accuracy of ATGM was wrong because when you rolled a miss the missile got deviated in random direction and if it hit the ground it was destroyed.
Since there is 50% chance that the deviation is toward the sky and 50% toward the ground the practical accuracy was lower than expected.
With WALB we brought a new feature that prevents a missile from hitting the ground when the roll is a miss befor it hits or overfly its target which brings back the accuracy to what is displayed.

That's the theory. In practice some elements can make your accuracy lower than displayed :
1) You get stunned during missile fly = you lose control
2) Target disappear for more than one second during missile fly = you lose control
3) You get stressed during missile fly = your next roll will have lower hit probability
4) Your missile deviate so much from its trajectory after multiple miss that when the last roll is a hit the missile cannot turn enough in the few meters remaining to actually hit its target.

Point 1 2 3 are designed that way and controlled.
The number of time point 4 appear is much harder to calculate. Your missile have to score multiple miss in a row and the random deviation must be several time in the same direction. Then the last roll that is a hit has to occurs close enough to the target and the missile rotation speed has to be low enough to prevent the missile from hitting the target hitbox.

To minimise this case the faster the missile the smaller the maximum deviation angle of the missile is."


Also this is not the case for Plane ATGMs because they move to fast to do any rerolls.
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Date Posted: Mar 30, 2016 @ 1:16am
Posts: 17