Dr. fetus nerfed?

[World's best Fox]

was he nerfed?

[Athéri System]

Yes. I think he was nerfed a bit too much. But he needed a nerf anyway imo.

He can still be very strong with the right synergies.

[Garlboh]

Yes.

The bombs are affected by your actual damage now. They won't be as powerful as regular bombs.
In return though, they can become more powerful and there's many more bomb synergies.

[World's best Fox]

so bascily, exploding tear that can be upgraded with bomb upgrades....thanks edmund

[Daemonologist]

I'd love to know where the misinformation that dr fetus bombs being affected by your tear damage is new in rebirth came from, that was always the case, even in the original. The only thing that seems to have changed is the hefty base damage being removed (which was basically there to bring it in line with normal bombs, though the base damage was actually 10 lower than normal bombs - the basic tear damage easily made up that difference), which makes the tear damage portion more noticeable - largely because it appears to be the only portion now.

It took me around 25-30 bombs to kill the cage despite all 7 bars filled in on damage and then getting eve's mascara on top of that (which is a pretty hefty damage up) in my last run using dr fetus - it doesn't even remotely compare to the original even with quite a few damage ups. The cage is a tank, but 25-30 bombs to kill something by end game with a significant amount of damage ups is kinda silly, they don't exactly fire fast. If not for dark bum+lil chad+contract from below+humbling bundle+several other defensive items+strong orbitals keeping me alive I'm pretty sure dr fetus would've cost me that run in the end. I actually used the orbitals as weapons instead in some rooms because it was both faster and just as safe due to the enemy types. =\

It has several buggy interactions too I noticed - I got ludo then dr fetus and dr fetus had both piercing+spectral effects despite no items granting them, presumably it got them from ludo. Later in the same run, I lost the spectral effect (I'd rather lose the piercing one, spectral is far less counterproductive with dr fetus..) when picking up other items that granted neither effect. Hot bombs and butt bombs also both have absolutely no effect on dr fetus bombs, and dr fetus bombs don't count as bombs at all for chub/chad/etc either.

[ijones72(ninja08)]

Originally posted by Daemonologist:

I'd love to know where the misinformation that dr fetus bombs being affected by your tear damage is new in rebirth came from, that was always the case, even in the original. The only thing that seems to have changed is the hefty base damage being removed (which was basically there to bring it in line with normal bombs, though the base damage was actually 10 lower than normal bombs - the basic tear damage easily made up that difference), which makes the tear damage portion more noticeable - largely because it appears to be the only portion now.

It took me around 25-30 bombs to kill the cage despite all 7 bars filled in on damage and then getting eve's mascara on top of that (which is a pretty hefty damage up) in my last run using dr fetus - it doesn't even remotely compare to the original even with quite a few damage ups. The cage is a tank, but 25-30 bombs to kill something by end game with a significant amount of damage ups is kinda silly, they don't exactly fire fast. If not for dark bum+lil chad+contract from below+humbling bundle+several other defensive items+strong orbitals keeping me alive I'm pretty sure dr fetus would've cost me that run in the end. I actually used the orbitals as weapons instead in some rooms because it was both faster and just as safe due to the enemy types. =\

It has several buggy interactions too I noticed - I got ludo then dr fetus and dr fetus had both piercing+spectral effects despite no items granting them, presumably it got them from ludo. Later in the same run, I lost the spectral effect (I'd rather lose the piercing one, spectral is far less counterproductive with dr fetus..) when picking up other items that granted neither effect. Hot bombs and butt bombs also both have absolutely no effect on dr fetus bombs, and dr fetus bombs don't count as bombs at all for chub/chad/etc either.

oh god.it doesnt work with butt bombs nor hot bombs?so basicly its a worse IPECAC now?

[World's best Fox]

Originally posted by ninja08:

Originally posted by Daemonologist:

I'd love to know where the misinformation that dr fetus bombs being affected by your tear damage is new in rebirth came from, that was always the case, even in the original. The only thing that seems to have changed is the hefty base damage being removed (which was basically there to bring it in line with normal bombs, though the base damage was actually 10 lower than normal bombs - the basic tear damage easily made up that difference), which makes the tear damage portion more noticeable - largely because it appears to be the only portion now.

It took me around 25-30 bombs to kill the cage despite all 7 bars filled in on damage and then getting eve's mascara on top of that (which is a pretty hefty damage up) in my last run using dr fetus - it doesn't even remotely compare to the original even with quite a few damage ups. The cage is a tank, but 25-30 bombs to kill something by end game with a significant amount of damage ups is kinda silly, they don't exactly fire fast. If not for dark bum+lil chad+contract from below+humbling bundle+several other defensive items+strong orbitals keeping me alive I'm pretty sure dr fetus would've cost me that run in the end. I actually used the orbitals as weapons instead in some rooms because it was both faster and just as safe due to the enemy types. =\

It has several buggy interactions too I noticed - I got ludo then dr fetus and dr fetus had both piercing+spectral effects despite no items granting them, presumably it got them from ludo. Later in the same run, I lost the spectral effect (I'd rather lose the piercing one, spectral is far less counterproductive with dr fetus..) when picking up other items that granted neither effect. Hot bombs and butt bombs also both have absolutely no effect on dr fetus bombs, and dr fetus bombs don't count as bombs at all for chub/chad/etc either.

oh god.it doesnt work with butt bombs nor hot bombs?so basicly its a worse IPECAC now?

Fire mind works like hot bomb (kinda) 100% chacne to leave a fire behind

[McKnuckles]

You should also get ipecac if you can find it too (Not sure if it is a bug but it mixes well with Dr. Fetus in that you don't take damage from your tears).

[ijones72(ninja08)]

Originally posted by McKnuckles:

You should also get ipecac if you can find it too (Not sure if it is a bug but it mixes well with Dr. Fetus in that you don't take damage from your tears).

i got that combo from a reroll room once.it seemed to always make bombs explode on impact like ipecac,and do insanity levels of damage.though the insanity damage mightve been from some other reroll item

[mrrogers]

I never thought dr fetus in the original was insane OP. Maybe tone the damage down a little but its still not easy to control all the time. It needs good damage.

[McKnuckles]

Originally posted by ninja08:

Originally posted by McKnuckles:

You should also get ipecac if you can find it too (Not sure if it is a bug but it mixes well with Dr. Fetus in that you don't take damage from your tears).

i got that combo from a reroll room once.it seemed to always make bombs explode on impact like ipecac,and do insanity levels of damage.though the insanity damage mightve been from some other reroll item

It did seem to do more damage, but it did help that I could fully use any tear ups I found because of the lack of self damage from the tears ipecac somehow caused. Though some enemies still didn't die that quickly, it did make it do way more damage than it had before.

[Daemonologist]

^Same tbh, it was one of my favourite items, but not just because it was powerful - it was also more fun to use than brimstone for me, as brimstone was just brimsnapping to insta-kill basically an entire room, fetus was insta-kill damage for non-boss things, but you had to stay out of the explosion yourself, and the fixed range and long explosion timer made it difficult to land hits on fast moving enemies too, especially if you had a piercing effect on the bombs - even more so if you also had a spectral effect on top of piercing, as then only the outer walls of a room could be used as blockades to reduce range to hit the things right behind you.

It's easier to use without piercing now as it blocks enemies a lot better than before, but with piercing it's still a nightmare (and there's several new items that grant piercing too, most of which are tied with other useful stat ups such as dmg up from death's touch) to use on anything fast, especially if it actively chases you. It's also nerfed in that you don't get bobby bombs+mr mega practically guaranteed within the next 2-3 treasure rooms like you did in the original, and mr mega was already a pretty damn hefty portion of the damage dr fetus did. There's some bomb immunity methods now sure, but they work just as well with IPECAC - which deals better damage, doesn't have the horrid delay on the explosion, poisons, and is just generally an all round better item than dr fetus now.

[Kohly]

Dr Fetus may be nerfed, but like someone said up there it has great synergies. I got ipecac and then Dr. Fetus and I killed Mega Satan in under I think 3 minutes.