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Yeah and that's fine, but the seeds should not be available to them if this is the case.
Anyway this still happens with items that we've both have unlocked or basic ones.
Whether or not each seed is identical across all platforms is fairly irrelevant because it still runs with seeds and there's 4 billion possibilities...
Well it couldn't be the catacombs if you didn't have them unlocked, like it would've been had itbeen unlocked already.
And across platforms might just mean ps4/vita/pc seeds don't produce all the same results due to different systems but I don't know exactly. Haven't had anything abnormal outside of not having the same items due to unlocks.
Anyway, we're all playing on pc and 2 guys started a seeded run with a new file (so same unlocks) but still they had different items.
I think they should let people either play with stuff they didn't have unlocked, at least in seeded games, or they should forbid that seed entirely to that player, if it's the case that unlocks change items finding.
I'll do some tests with same file but different configurations to see if they produce different results.
....because if it doesn't work between ps4/vita/pc it still works from game to game on the same platform? Just because it might not transfer properly across different platforms doesn't make it useless and neither does locking out items if you didn't have them already.
Easily explained if it picks a random item in place of an item you don't have unlocked. It doesn't know what you have and what you don't for each generated seed, so it likely pulls randomly from the pool you have available.
That would be kind of dumb. "want to use this seed? LOL TOO BAD UNLOCK ♥♥♥♥ THAT YOU DONT HAVE YET!" The way it works now is perfectly fine and works in every possible situation. Just because it doesn't work the way you want it to means nothing.
What is it the seed?
why are they in the game?
why we can choose them before starting the run?
Exactly but I've specified that it was the same pool. The only catch can be if they've played different versions of the game.
It's not fine. I find different items on a run so I have a different experience from my mates. And it's not that they are better or worse than theirs, it's just another random item. So, in the case you wanna do a challenge, that challenge run would haven't any sense, since my mates can find a Halo, but I can found a Poop, and that just because we have different pools of items (I can have Halo too, but if I've a different dimension of the pool it's not secure I will get that).
A same seed should generate same objects, no matter the pool. Otherwise it completely defeat the purpose of generating the same experience, and I'm not talking about luck/unluck modifier to get Satan's room or stuff like that. It changes the first gold room item, without picking up anything else. That's wrong, and not for me, but for any possible use of the seed.
You don't get it. The seed likely pulls at random an item that isn't available. It doesn't say "if x isn't available, pick y, if y isn't available, pick z" and go down a list until it hits something that's available, it most likely just pulls from something you have, hence the variation. This makes sense. Do you have ANY idea how much work it would be to program every single item to go down a list until it hits an item you have? Or how about how dull it would be if you did a run and it just reverted to an item from the base pool until you unlocked that one specific items. There'd be items you wouldn't see in forever because they aren't unlocked yet and then others are unlocked but the game is pulling from a base pool so you don't get those unlocked items either.
You aren't doing these tests with 100% unlocks so yeah, you don't really know if it's useless or anything. It doesn't function the way you think it should, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad. You don't seem to grasp why it functions the way it does or why it even makes sense to function that way. The suggestion of locking seeds until items are unlocked is even more ridiculous of a suggestion. It shows that you have little grasp of the implications of it because unless you had the same exact pool of items as that will spawn you would be unable to play millions of seeds. That means going down a list of "fun seeds" until you found one that you could actually play which causes even more incompatibility with sharing them with others.
The big problem is, if your basicly feeding a seed into a big random number generator that is used for everything, the actual random results will still start to deverge a lot based on player action. For example: One player goes into the room to the left, the other to the right, both use the same seed. But one room has a bomb item in it, which causes the game to randomly pick if it is a single bomb, a double bomb, a troll bomb, or so on. And bam, suddenly because of that one random choice, the two players now have diffrent results for every random action picked afterwards.
Now obviously this can't be how it works for seeded runs in general, because if it did players would start to get compleatly diffrent floors after the first simply by visiting rooms in a diffrent order and the seed would be useless. So the seeds are probobly fed into mini random number generators that are used only for things that are done in a predictble way. Maybe one that is used only for the floor layout and maybe one that is used only for drops in a perticular room even.
But here is the catch, things can probobly still deverge in some cases, and there are probobly lots and lots of stuff that can cause it to do that, what the player unlocks being the biggest one. But okay, let's say both players have the exact same save data state. What exactly does it do when figuring out what item to give you? Does it put all items that are unlocked in an array and pick a random index number? If so it should give the same result every time (I think, at least if it picks a number of the same size every time and then does a multipy or modulus to find the result in a range).
But what if it picks a random item, and if it's not unlocked, picks another? Then you have a situation where you can start to get devergince again. Imagine if one player goes to the boss room before the item room and it picks a number for a item that is not locked in that pool... but the other player goes to the item room first and it needs to repick the item in that pool with the same number. Then it will start to deverge. You might conciter it a bug or a design flaw, but the fact is there are so many little factors that can mess up seeds that most people don't even have any idea could happen untill they do. And worst of all, changeing how it works now could break any seeds that people already use!
TL;DR: Random seeds are really really hard to do right.
A seeded run should at least generate the same items if you have unlocked them, no matter about the others, but I know that can be painly to implement. This way seeded run are useless for showing OP runs or challenging friends due to the huge difference that said items can generate. It'll make sense only when you have reached 100%, but at this point would be the same to just let anyone have access to the entire pool when playing seeded runs.
The only solution I have found to all this mess is to share a savefile with friends and using that to play the seeded run. But I'm a bit worried that doing that can unlock achievements that we haven't done yet.