Avoiding The Cellar Unlock?

[Ⓖ]

So I've been wanting to 100% this game, but it seems like every time I progress it knocks me back with something that makes it so I have to start over with a new thing in mind. Everything is harder is so objectively harder to me that I didn't even make it out of the basement for many runs after getting it. I don't care what all you guys say about it not being harder - it is. The most important thing to me though since I'm trying to 100% and suck at this game is this: even if it's only 5% harder or something, if you're wanting to complete all of the Lost's stuff, avoiding even a 5% increase in difficulty is a big deal.

Recently on my second file where I'd been strategizing to avoid Everything is Harder via the Joker card and the Shovel as well as keeping the item pool as tight as possible to help the Lost's RNG for getting beneficial items, I unlocked the Cellar.

The Cellar also seems objectively harder to me. Maybe it's only 5% harder, but I am not a skilled player (at all), I am a patient player (which should be obvious given how much effort I put into avoiding even a slight difficulty increase).

Now on the wiki it implies that to unlock the Cellar, you have to beat Gemini's big twin second. Is this true, and thus an easy way to avoid accidentally unlocking the Cellar? I could've sworn I'd already beaten Gemini on that file, but I just want to confirm before starting a new file and having to get SMB and BG again.

[Mr.CreepDλy™]

The alt floors are meant to be more difficult, but I can't STAND the spider enemies at all. Stay away from cellar :P
FYI: tl;dr...

[Rhyhei]

for unlock the cellar, catacombs, necropolis and utero you need defeat all the bosses of they counter-parts (basement, caves, dephts and womb)

sorry for my bad english

[Deadbubble]

Hah, yeah, the Cellar is a massive pain in tthe ass. Substantially harder than the Bassement, mostly because of those stupid spiders and their random-ass pathing. Anyways, all alt floorrs (with the exception of the Utero, the Womb alt), are unlocked by defeating all the bosses that can spawn on that floor.

If you want to avoid unlocking the Cellar, take note of all the bosses that spawn in the Basement. Avoid killing all the bosses of that floor.

[Ⓖ]

Nice to see people confirm that it's actually harder. I'd seen a lot of people saying "if you're good enough to get that far it doesn't matter" or "it's not actually harder it's just different. Nice to hear agreement for a change.

You guys aren't quite answerming my question though, so lemme clarify: on the wiki it says this on the page for The Cellar: "The Cellar is one of the environments in Chapter 1. Unlocked after defeating each boss in The Basement, including defeating Gemini's little twin and big twin last.

Also on Gemini's page, it mentions that they are technically 2 separate bosses.

Now that sounds to me like if you always make sure to beat Gemini's big twin first, you'll never unlock the cellar because it only counts the final boss's death. That would be great for help with the Lost.

Also, like I said I could've sworn I'd beaten all the bosses once, and I specifically remember beating Gemini's little twin first when it finally unlocked (because I never beat Gemini's little twin first, that was the first time).

If nobody can confirm if that's how it works, I may have to just start a new file and test it. The later alternate floors are also harder of course so I may just use the boss avoidance strategy, but generally they don't matter as much because by the 3rd level you've already got some power going hopefully. The Cellar is the hardest of them all it seems simply because it kills your run before it ever gets a chance to take off.

[Deadbubble]

Originally posted by Ⓖ:

Nice to see people confirm that it's actually harder. I'd seen a lot of people saying "if you're good enough to get that far it doesn't matter" or "it's not actually harder it's just different. Nice to hear agreement for a change.

You guys aren't quite answerming my question though, so lemme clarify: on the wiki it says this on the page for The Cellar: "The Cellar is one of the environments in Chapter 1. Unlocked after defeating each boss in The Basement, including defeating Gemini's little twin and big twin last.

Also on Gemini's page, it mentions that they are technically 2 separate bosses.

Now that sounds to me like if you always make sure to beat Gemini's big twin first, you'll never unlock the cellar because it only counts the final boss's death. That would be great for help with the Lost.

Also, like I said I could've sworn I'd beaten all the bosses once, and I specifically remember beating Gemini's little twin first when it finally unlocked (because I never beat Gemini's little twin first, that was the first time).

If nobody can confirm if that's how it works, I may have to just start a new file and test it. The later alternate floors are also harder of course so I may just use the boss avoidance strategy, but generally they don't matter as much because by the 3rd level you've already got some power going hopefully. The Cellar is the hardest of them all it seems simply because it kills your run before it ever gets a chance to take off.

As far as I know, yes, killing either Big or LIttle Gemini first counts as separate bosses, so you should be fine if you always kill the big one first or something.

[Rathi]

All i can say is, you don't need to rush it. Those harder bosses will also make you improve your skills at the game, so if you like the game, just play and let stuff happen :)
The lost unlocks can be a pain, but if you reallyt want to complete the game, you can always reset each run, untill you get dead cat/holy mantle in adjacent curse/item starting rooms.

This will not guarantee a run, but will increase your odds ;)

[Ⓖ]

Originally posted by Rathi:

All i can say is, you don't need to rush it. Those harder bosses will also make you improve your skills at the game, so if you like the game, just play and let stuff happen :)
The lost unlocks can be a pain, but if you reallyt want to complete the game, you can always reset each run, untill you get dead cat/holy mantle in adjacent curse/item starting rooms.

This will not guarantee a run, but will increase your odds ;)

I understand going slowly, but I think you underestimate how unskilled I am. I have to give myself the best odds possible to have even a hope of a prayer.

By keeping the item pool tighter, it makes reset city a little smaller, and by keeping the floors limited it decreases the chance of me running into a room I simply don't know how to deal with and keeps the difficulty lower so that when I finally DO get a good set of items, I have a chance.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to unlock all the Lost's stuff, but if I'm ever gonna have a chance this is how.

[Rathi]

Just so you know, cellar isn't always that bad. Basement can also spawn big rooms with spiders, flies and those grub things.
And for the lost unlocks, you also need to do boss rush. Gemini will also spawn there, so there is still a risk you will unlock the cellar eventually if you kill the wrong one first.

[Deadbubble]

Originally posted by Rathi:

Just so you know, cellar isn't always that bad. Basement can also spawn big rooms with spiders, flies and those grub things.
And for the lost unlocks, you also need to do boss rush. Gemini will also spawn there, so there is still a risk you will unlock the cellar eventually if you kill the wrong one first.

Naw man, cellar is worse. Its almost nothing but spiders.

[Rathi]

Just saying cellar isn't a death sentence. You can still get fairly easy rooms, just as you can still get annoying bs rooms on the basement.

[Ⓖ]

Originally posted by Rathi:

Just so you know, cellar isn't always that bad. Basement can also spawn big rooms with spiders, flies and those grub things.
And for the lost unlocks, you also need to do boss rush. Gemini will also spawn there, so there is still a risk you will unlock the cellar eventually if you kill the wrong one first.

Either way, this is a legitimate strategy in my mind. It's WAY harder up front mentally and emotionally because you have to do the hardest runs first, but in the long run I think it will be easier. The idea is that I'll get those done, and then the rest of the game will be one big victory lap.

You have the Dark Souls cover as your profile pic. Having played it myself, I consider this game harder for me because I'm much worse at it - and it's shown pretty clearly that it will take more hours to 100%

[Rathi]

I am in no way trying to force things upon you, really :) However, dealing with hard enemies early game will only help increase skill and deal with enemies in the future.

And stop putting yourself down with stuff like " i suck" give it a few shots :) Im sure you will improve!