Greed mode is really unfair for the Lost.

[Chewy102]

The Lost is suppose to be the hardest person to play as but the game is at least somewhat fair in how things play out. That is how it was in the stock game that is. Rooms never spawn you near an enemy and are at least 2-3+ tiles away, there is nothing that can deal damage to you within 1-2 seconds of entering a room unless you run into it yourself, all rooms follow clear patterns based on their floors for spawning and rock/shroom/fire/poop placement, and once you learn all of that (or at least enough to get by) playing the Lost is a fair hard. The game had many patches to make it more so. Like Lumps being unable to spawn under you or ??? doing the same.

Meaning. You either failed to react or made a misshap to die. The only thing to not fit in this is Daddy Longlegs and his RNG foot stomps. That and the bastard Mega Fatty and his super jumps.

But Greed Mode? Unfair as ♥♥♥♥!


CONSTANTY an enemy will spawn on the tile you are of or right next to you. The .5 second grace timer isn't enough time to react to that. More so if you don't have speed ups, this is just for melee enemies. The ones that shoot are worse as they fire when you are trying to gain distance and get an almost certain hit even with a speed up. Then you get into spawns that are bigger than a tile and having them spawn on top of you.

Not only all that, but the spawn points are not made for the very rooms they are for! There are rocks and powder kegs all over the top/bottom spawn points. You can't use hardly any of those as cover as they just get poofed when something spawns on them. Powder kegs or bomb rocks often kill what spawns from this as well. What little cover that does spawn is often useless and a deathtrap.

It is just unfair as ♥♥♥♥ I say! You can't learn the spawn patterns as it is a large list and RNG of what you get with just .5 seconds to tell what you got before damage can be done. Plus with just 10 seconds to clear each wave you DO NOT have the time to do jack about spawn patterns anyway as you are doing what you can to stay alive. Running from flying enemies, avoiding fire, keeping mind of off screen stuff, maintaining lines of fire, watching out for theose room jumping ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ spiders, and more.

I can't tell you how many runs just today I had end in death from it being 100% impossible to react to a spawn. Don't even get the grace timers once in a while from something like a mulboom or if one of my orbitals kills something that shoots on death. Even with using the button to stop spawns it is rather unfair to what spawns around you. And if you do use the button you get A LOT fewer coins making it even harder. The point of using the button is to counter stopping the waves with LOST HP, not lost cash!



TLDR-
Greed mode is unfair from enemies spawning ontop of you with no time to react or spawning inside of rocks/other things removing what cover there is. Not a big deal with most poeple other than the Lost. With the Lost it becomes a dice roll of if you will die on each wave spawn.

Even for a rouge-like game this is to much RNG.

[Chewy102]

Originally posted by Inutsu:

Originally posted by Rokoshy:

Greed mode is unfair?
Dude, you need to complete Mega Satan on hard with the lost and you only unlock a white baby.
THAT'S unfair.

Mega Stan's HP doesn't scale. Hush's does. So try Hush.

In time. I already killed Mega Satan with the Lost before Afterbirth came out, but those don't count so I get to do it again.

Originally posted by Elemec:

If you stay on the very corners (There are 4 of them)
You don't get hit.

Do that and you get trapped easy from the spawns. Learned that hour 1 in rebirth Lost runs. Plus Iv had many deaths from rocks failing to block shots or enemies clipping into them if it is only 1 tile. And no, I didn't simply move out of place for all of them. Some yea, not all of them I had over my 700+ failed Lost runs.

Originally posted by Inutsu:

You can turn the waves off without losing hp as the Lost.
Also... git gud.

Do that and you suffer lost coins. You get 18 from doing all 8 waves and 9 from both boss waves without using the button. 12-13 with stopping waves 1-8 at best and maybe 5-6 from stopping the boss waves. That button has more costs than hearts.

Items at 15 cents each and keys at 5 each you don't get enough to make a dent of the item pools even with getting all 27 each floor to make anything of a combo the Lost needs to survive Ultra Greed.

Never mind the 17-19 you get from stopping waves. Hardly enough for 1 item with no chance of getting the key you need every floor. You also have to use coins to reroll the shops taking even more if it gets filled with HP or self damage items.



Iv cleared the game 100% before afterbirth and know when things are fair or not. Broken many brick walls with my face to earn my True Plat legit. Greed mode is good as is for everyone but the Lost. It is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as him with the RNG needed to make him able to survive Ultra Greed. You need items to do that, but you can't get them without rolling into them with the D4 or suffering the instant death spawns from not stopping the waves.

Hush is just a bullet hell. Patterns you can learn or react to. Iv killed him without damage a couple of times so far when doing Isaac hard runs again. Greed mode is free to play MMO levels of RNG. No skill can overcome the rolls of dice.

[Inutsu]

I agree that pushing the button hurts more than not pushing it. But if a person can't handle all the waves then they need more practice.
I got RPG also and since I never played the original Isaac first 50 hours were a nightmare. At about 200 I got to perfect game.
When Afterbirth came out... well, I kinda breezed through it. Except for that greed donation machine :(

[Karolmo]

I did it on my 3rd attempt. You can stop the waves without taking damage.
Activate wave, press button, kill wave, repeat. It took me 47 minutes to beat greed mode as the lost because i did it that way, but i did it without cat or mantle.
Do you get hit while killing a wave? Well, that is your own fault.

[Chewy102]

Originally posted by Inutsu:

I agree that pushing the button hurts more than not pushing it. But if a person can't handle all the waves then they need more practice.
I got RPG also and since I never played the original Isaac first 50 hours were a nightmare. At about 200 I got to perfect game.
When Afterbirth came out... well, I kinda breezed through it. Except for that greed donation machine :(

There is nothing to handle with the spawns. If you are near a spawn tile you are going to get hit and you will never know what tiles will spawn as (and this is a guess) around 60% of all the tiles in that room are spawn tiles. The other 40% spawn free tiles are right next to the button, the exact walls, and a bit of the cornors. Problem is all of the "safe" tiles are well within danager ranges (1-3 tiles) of a spawn tile meaning you need olympic reaction speeds for most enemies. And if you happen to get away from spawns on the tile next to you the room can be so filled that pathing will get iffy and that makes other enemies break their patterns.

Also with the games movement being somewhat momentum based if you are going in the wrong direction you can not get out of the way of bigger threats. I had a Larry Jr kill me from it being 2/3-3/4 the up/down length of the room and spawning on top of me while I was moving away to the right from the button to start a boss wave. The only way to have avoided that was to stand still on the button or go up/down from starting the wave. But if you do that then you die from standing still or running into one of the many (if not all of them but Larry Jr) bosses that spawn up/down of the button.


RNG spawns? Im good with. RNG spawns that don't care of what is in the room or where the player is in the room? I am NOT good with.

That is the vary reason Lumps and ??? had thier AI changed to not warp within 2 tiles of a player and to slow their time to fire speeds after warping when they often popped within 1 tile or on top of the player and instantly fired. We are humans. We need time to react to new spawns. Greed modes doesn't give us that time and without it the Lost isn't "hard". It is just unfair and unfun. Even for someone that loves to be taken to his quitting point in order to find out where it is and just ignore it to keep going.

[D_Wormkiller]

Finished it after trying for 1 hour (20+ tries). I was op as ♥♥♥♥, but worth the effort. The problem will be with hush

[Karolmo]

Originally posted by D_Wormkiller:

Finished it after trying for 1 hour (20+ tries). I was op as ♥♥♥♥, but worth the effort. The problem will be with hush

Gnawled leaf is your friend there

[Inutsu]

Originally posted by Chewy102:

Originally posted by Inutsu:

I agree that pushing the button hurts more than not pushing it. But if a person can't handle all the waves then they need more practice.
I got RPG also and since I never played the original Isaac first 50 hours were a nightmare. At about 200 I got to perfect game.
When Afterbirth came out... well, I kinda breezed through it. Except for that greed donation machine :(

There is nothing to handle with the spawns. If you are near a spawn tile you are going to get hit and you will never know what tiles will spawn as (and this is a guess) around 60% of all the tiles in that room are spawn tiles. The other 40% spawn free tiles are right next to the button, the exact walls, and a bit of the cornors. Problem is all of the "safe" tiles are well within danager ranges (1-3 tiles) of a spawn tile meaning you need olympic reaction speeds for most enemies. And if you happen to get away from spawns on the tile next to you the room can be so filled that pathing will get iffy and that makes other enemies break their patterns.

Also with the games movement being somewhat momentum based if you are going in the wrong direction you can not get out of the way of bigger threats. I had a Larry Jr kill me from it being 2/3-3/4 the up/down length of the room and spawning on top of me while I was moving away to the right from the button to start a boss wave. The only way to have avoided that was to stand still on the button or go up/down from starting the wave. But if you do that then you die from standing still or running into one of the many (if not all of them but Larry Jr) bosses that spawn up/down of the button.


RNG spawns? Im good with. RNG spawns that don't care of what is in the room or where the player is in the room? I am NOT good with.

That is the vary reason Lumps and ??? had thier AI changed to not warp within 2 tiles of a player and to slow their time to fire speeds after warping when they often popped within 1 tile or on top of the player and instantly fired. We are humans. We need time to react to new spawns. Greed modes doesn't give us that time and without it the Lost isn't "hard". It is just unfair and unfun. Even for someone that loves to be taken to his quitting point in order to find out where it is and just ignore it to keep going.

If something spawns right under you, you have some time to move away without taking damage actually. So standing still is an okay strat if you're on the rock or above the chasm. If it's not an option it's better to keep moving and react.

[Hollowriller]

standing in the corner dosen't help, Those yellow clusters of flies sometimes spawn there, and they seem to have changed the lumps movements, now they dissapear as soon as they have fired sometimes even instantly :( they could fix the spawn thing if the spawns for the next wave was marked (like a pentagram symbol or something) so you don't stand there unknowingly.

and the scalling health needs to be scaled down, ultra greed have a few times become almost immortal with his health spawns when i do a high damage run. sure if we can't instakill him that's fine but we should still do a bigger dent on his hp if we are stronger compared to shooting faster.

[Shirasaka Yoko (Hat World)]

I like people that complain about life getting scalled (such as hush and greed, both which i find kinda easy even without themod) but they actually used god mode mod once.

hypocrisis

[Rachskald]

Zodiac items some of the worst? Are you on drugs? No carry items but cancer, virgo, capricorn are good items, no discussion. The poison tears are not even that terrible.