Stopwatch not working

[ergo]

Just downloaded the most recent 10 MB update, started a Lost run, bought the Stopwatch... aaaand now it's not affecting enemies.

[metalsocks]

They might as well turn the entire item pool to nothing but the bean items and take away the D6 from Isaac and call it balacing.

[PKblaze]

Lol. Never liked the stopwatch any way. Made the game way too boring.

[Kaibun]

♥♥♥♥, and I just unlocked it. This makes it totally useless with The Lost now.

[Zero Grim]

im seeing alot of people saying they didnt like the stop watch, you dont HAVE to buy it, you dont even have to unlock it if you disliked it this much.

Soon the game will be balanced and they will add a gun with multiplayer, then truelly isaac will be complete.

[ergo]

Whenever I see nerfs like this one, I start questioning the designer's talent. Think about it: the Stopwatch did not exist in vanilla. It was deliberately put in Rebirth in its exact broken form. It didn't have looked over broken combos, it was just broken on its own. The designer considered it fine.

Same story with the Lost. It was stupid. Beyond stupid. Now, after a year, they buff it to start with Holy Mantle. It was considered fine upon introduction, but -now- they're listening to the community? That's just poor design.

Just like the Lost was put into the game as a test of patience rather than a test of skill; so was the Stopwatch introduced as a "why not?" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ item that (along with Dead Cat and Holy Mantle) made you want to kill Edmund and his entire family slightly less often when you went for the Lost's unlocks.

The Stopwatch and the Lost didn't belong in the game in the first place. And now these stupid nerfs/buffs follow that achieve nothing and only highlight how poorly designed some aspects of the game are.

[Onibushou]

Stopwatch was good for a few things like the Lost or the Speed! challenge. Yes, I'd usually pass over it in normal runs, but what's wrong with the occasional OP fun run? Imo, that's the point of a Rouge-like. Sometime garbage, sometimes OP. Never knowing what you'd get rather than a constant mediocre.

Now its still boring, more useless, and its still a hindering special item. I'm tempted to say the non-unlock, non-special "Broken" stopwatch is better now...

[owlsonly]

Originally posted by Enlino:

Originally posted by Fennec Fawx ♥:

Glad to see someone agrees ^-^

See, I would agree with this logic if they were replacing it with a more interesting mechanic. But the new stopwatch isn't any more interesting or fun than the old one, it's just worse. It's gone from being kinda boring compared to other OP items (but really powerful!) to being another forgettable item you'll never take unless it's free or you have nothing better to do with your money.

I'm sure for a lot of people the new stopwatch is much more interesting and fun. Instead of being an item thats too good to pick up, its now an item I would be happy to see in the shop. And in the end its still really powerful.

[Adam]

I just found out the hard way about this change. Too bad I didn't come here to read about it first. All.That.Wasted.Time...

[owlsonly]

Originally posted by Onibushou:

Stopwatch was good for a few things like the Lost or the Speed! challenge. Yes, I'd usually pass over it in normal runs, but what's wrong with the occasional OP fun run? Imo, that's the point of a Rouge-like. Sometime garbage, sometimes OP. Never knowing what you'd get rather than a constant mediocre.

Now its still boring, more useless, and its still a hindering special item. I'm tempted to say the non-unlock, non-special "Broken" stopwatch is better now...

I understand that a lot of people enjoy the OP fun run. But others, including Edmund I'm sure, don't. For those a run in which you can't lose is pretty dull.

One of my biggest issues with rebirth was how often you'd have a winning run within the first few floors. Especially when you're trying to streak, finishing those runs just becomes a chore.

I always thought the point of rougelikes was that you could always screw it up so you never let your guard down. That's what keeps it engaging.

[rayzones]

Don't see the point, really. Stopwatch could be made funnier/harder instead, e.g. if it worked randomly/time-based (since it was introduced with rainbow effects already, if not with the spider bites etc). Then it would be a broken-broken item, much like broken watch but with different challenge. I'm sure there are lots of other ways to counter the OP if needed, but they decided to just make the item half-useless-half-op (and still a 999-shop-donation — were I a new player, wouldn't get the joke)

[Muro]

I'd prefer it there was a third stopwatch added with these properties, rather than this one replacing the old one.
Old Stopwatch - "just needs a little shake"

The stopwatch was mega boring, but then it's a shame in its current state it doesn't work for the Lost. Alternatively, I'd like this added (or replacing the current one):
Low-battery Stopwatch - "still has SOME juice in it" (active, stopwatch effect, 6-room charge)

[Enlino]

Originally posted by owlsonly:

Originally posted by Onibushou:

Stopwatch was good for a few things like the Lost or the Speed! challenge. Yes, I'd usually pass over it in normal runs, but what's wrong with the occasional OP fun run? Imo, that's the point of a Rouge-like. Sometime garbage, sometimes OP. Never knowing what you'd get rather than a constant mediocre.

Now its still boring, more useless, and its still a hindering special item. I'm tempted to say the non-unlock, non-special "Broken" stopwatch is better now...

I understand that a lot of people enjoy the OP fun run. But others, including Edmund I'm sure, don't. For those a run in which you can't lose is pretty dull.

One of my biggest issues with rebirth was how often you'd have a winning run within the first few floors. Especially when you're trying to streak, finishing those runs just becomes a chore.

I always thought the point of rougelikes was that you could always screw it up so you never let your guard down. That's what keeps it engaging.

I would argue that the best thing about Binding of Isaac is the variety between runs. Yeah, sometimes you'll get epic fetus, or the curse room on floor 1 brings you to a devil deal with brimstone, and the game is already won. Other times you'll get decent attack items but no health ups and have to be really careful once you hit the womb and can die in three hits. Other times you'll get crap like crack the sky and brother bobby and every boss takes ages to kill. And things can change partway through - I had a run once that was really bad, until I found a curse room with 3 red chests that each gave me a guppy piece. There's tons of different ways for things to play out.

The important thing is that there's both a huge variety in power levels you can have (anywhere from "even normal enemies are tough to beat" to "It's literally impossible for me to die unless I try, and even that's tough") AND a huge variety in ways you can become powerful. Maybe you have bad attack, but you've got the habit, blank card, sun card, and enough health to be unkillable. Maybe you've got brimstone, rubber cement, my reflection, and coal and can make a wobbly death laser sweep the room. Maybe you've got tiny planet and godhead and surround yourself with a death aura that makes it impossible to see. Maybe you get healed by explosions and your normal attack is a bomb that creates bombs that create bombs that can drop items. And maybe you've got permanent bullet time and can dodge everything. It's just another way to become OP and if you don't like it, well, it'll only show up once every couple hundred runs or so anyway.

The nerf just turns the stopwatch into another forgettable item. If you thought everything moving in slow mothing was boring before - well, it's just as boring now, except if you play well it won't do anything. It doesn't make the game harder (the vast majority of runs will never see the stopwatch anyway), and it doesn't stop you from getting a win handed to you (epic fetus, brimstone, and mom's knife still exist and are more common), it just gets rid of a little variety.

[Onibushou]

Originally posted by owlsonly:

I understand that a lot of people enjoy the OP fun run. But others, including Edmund I'm sure, don't. For those a run in which you can't lose is pretty dull.

One of my biggest issues with rebirth was how often you'd have a winning run within the first few floors. Especially when you're trying to streak, finishing those runs just becomes a chore.

I always thought the point of rougelikes was that you could always screw it up so you never let your guard down. That's what keeps it engaging.

Challenge is fine, but this makes the Stopwatch much less useful for those that want it, and I fail to see how this would be an increase in difficulty or even interest for those that don't want old stopwatch anyways. Either don't take it at all, or take it and its still going to be useless in 99% of rooms. You might be able to effectively use it for Hush/Mega Satan, but its still completely worthless with the character that would have wanted it most there (and imo, the others don't need it at all regardless).

And I always though the point of difficult/lengthy unlocks and special/rare items was that they were actually worth trying to get. You know, something good. Maybe we were both wrong?

[Kaibun]

Now nobody's going to even pick up the stopwatch anymore. Just what the point of this? You weren't even forced to buy it.

[Walter]

So it's absolutely obsolete to The Lost huh? My ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ god I cannot believe all these nerfs man.