The Lost problem

[legendary member]

So, right after I unlocked The Lost (with the missing poster) he didn't have the holy mantle.
Is this an update, or is it because I unlocked it with the missing poster?

[alpaca]

you have to put money in the greed machine for him to start with holy mantle. I don't remember how much you can look it up

[poe]

Its ~800 in the Greed Machine

[legendary member]

Thanks!

[Flygoniaks]

879 coins to be exact. Good luck...

[Hi my name is Duck!]

Originally posted by Admin Aboose:

Thanks!

Originally posted by Admin Aboose:

Thanks!

Originally posted by Admin Aboose:

Thanks!

[Phaper]

Wait.

So if I unlock The Lost without the DLC, I don't get the Holy Mantle as a starting item?

[Sheker]

That is correct. Until you donate enough money into the greed machine, you won't get the holy mantle in any runs you start with The Lost (similarly to how Isaac doesn't start with the D6 until you unlock it).

[Phaper]

Wow.

That's really annoying.

'Here we created an incredibly difficult to survive with unlockable character (The Lost), then made him more reasonable...in the DLC.'

Either he shouldn't be unlockable in the Vanilla game, or he should come with the Holy Mantle in the Vanilla.

That's a design choice similar to coercive pay 2 win.

Yes, I know it's possible to complete the achievements with him (BaerTaffy got all of them before Afterbirth was released), but you need an overwhelming amount of lock to pull it off (Baer got Holy Mantle first floor, and ended up with Guppy, Trinity Shield, Infamy, and Stopwatch in his run...and still needed Guppy's Collar to bring him back during The Lamb fight).

[jareddm3]

Except that the mechanic for unlocking the holy mantle on the Lost isn't in the base game and there's no reason for it to be. It's not like you just buy the DLC and suddenly you have the holy mantle. It's a huge effort to get. Besides, you have the D4 which actually massively increases your chances of winning by the end of basement 2. That's already more than a lot of us had when we beat it.

[Zeforas]

The lost become really one of the best character, the moment he got holy mantle : He can fly, free devil deal, and spectral shot. What ask for? The only challenge left with him was to get to Mega satan, so either you need a lot of luck to get daddy key, or don't take any devil deal.

I don't know why people still complain about him now.

[Phaper]

Originally posted by jareddm3:

Except that the mechanic for unlocking the holy mantle on the Lost isn't in the base game and there's no reason for it to be. It's not like you just buy the DLC and suddenly you have the holy mantle. It's a huge effort to get. Besides, you have the D4 which actually massively increases your chances of winning by the end of basement 2. That's already more than a lot of us had when we beat it.

The Lost spawns with the D4 in Vanilla?

My point of reference is a let's play pre-Afterbirth release.

[Zeforas]

Originally posted by TheBlazikenBro (in tazzie):

Originally posted by Papyrus:

The lost become really one of the best character, the moment he got holy mantle : He can fly, free devil deal, and spectral shot. What ask for? The only challenge left with him was to get to Mega satan, so either you need a lot of luck to get daddy key, or don't take any devil deal.

I don't know why people still complain about him now.

Those advantages are really good for the Lost and while they make him worth playing enough of the time, the Lost is still offset by many things.
1. The D4 is an unpredictable item shuffle which I'm more than a little annoyed rerolls your Holy Mantle. Has the same chance to ruin your run as it does help it.
2. A ton of useless items. These include health upgrades, items that give you Soul Hearts, items that take effect upon being damaged and items that are triggered by damage. I mean you can at least gamble them off with the D4 but how can you throw it down to odds?
3. Guaranteed damage rooms screw the Lost more than other characters.
You could say The Keeper has this problem too, but getting builds around items dropping coins kinda helps. But since the Lost has no way of getting to take another hit without a way of leaving the room, you have to be powerful enough to kill these enemies before they kill you which isn't always 100% likely to happen.
Examples of those rooms that I've seen in runs is the "backwards L Double Forsaken room" and the small Krampus Room.
I could be wrong in any of those points, but I just wanted to list my drawbacks with him. He has definitely gotten stronger from the buffs, yes. But the Lost still has more consequences than most characters in the game.

True. Many item is useless with the lost, and i don't bother using the D4 either. Holy mantle is just a god send. But with the spectral shot, it became much easier to hide behind wall and hiding. You can take your time if you need to. Unless there flying/jumping ennemy. Screw these.

Tbh, the keeper made me rage much more than the lost : No devil deal ( or almost ONCE if you have a health up item in the same floor, or a strenght card. ) Very slow attack speed. ( But he does get 3 shot. That is nice. ) He can't fly compared to the lost. If you aren't lucky, you may not find a single coin to heal yourself. Also, getting hit = no devil/angel room. Since his "health" is equal to red heart.

Well, the keeper is much more enjoyable once you get the wooden nickel, though. But if you didn't have that, it was pure hell to play with him.