Possible ways of buffing the Keeper

[morph?]

I understand that his entire character is meant as a challenge, but then again the Lost can start with Holy Mantle now. :y
Honestly it'd be cool to see some coin-related buffs, like nickels and dimes acting as soul hearts and black hearts respectively or at least the Keeper naturally dropping money when he takes damage, or maybe even being able to start with Transcendence after donating more to the Greed Machine. Just a suggestion iunno

[morph?]

As an example for difficult characters based on health, let's just take Blue Baby and the Lost. With their severe downsides there's also smaller but counteractive upsides. Gaining health back as Blue Baby is a pain but there's still many ways to generate soul hearts with actives and buddies, and health upgrades still suffice as an additional heart or occasionally more. The Lost cannot gain any health but he already has safety options already starting with flight and spectral tears, and that's disregarding the Mantle unlock.

There's major problems to the Keeper's two coins as heart containers. One is not being able to utilize soul/black hearts to preserve any possible chances for reaching a Deity Room. Lost already doesn't need to worry about this since he literally can't take damage anyways, and Blue Baby's practically guarenteed a chance since he can't take red heart damage. Of course there's the simple methods to getting a Deal with the Devil/Angel with Keeper via red chest, Holy Mantle , and other items adding a small chance, but there's a very small chance of being able to get these possibilities. I suggested the nickels and dimes thing as a small idea to at least make up for his lack of health.

The other thing is that, lack of health. Extra lives are usually good, but again, there's only five items that grant any extra lives at all. Lost can still can take any deals taking his health away free and Blue Baby can still replenish all his health. Only two heart containers already makes it impossible to take 10 of the 37 items in the Devil Room Pool (without any lives) and surviving past it; even then you can't benefit from any soul-heart-granting items that make up a fraction of the pool. Again, either at least one more coin container or maybe even the idea I suggested could help cushion any deals you would take.

Third and most important to me is regaining health. Pickup-wise a coin drop is completely random, and so is the chance to get any from a chest. Blowing up corpses doesn't guarentee anything and secret rooms themselves don't either. Shops are a decent way to get health back, but then in the least you need a bomb which mostly won't be at hand (fires are RNG too so I don't exactly wanna scream this again.) Health-ups heal a container, but that's a waste since it can count as something permanent for other characters (the Lost doesn't need to worry about that and it's his main feature, and Blue Baby can at least get a soul heart that takes another hit or two.) Already discounting items that would spawn hearts since they're just converted into flies, there's regen items, manual-healing items, and items that spawn coins. Regen is moderately reliable but there's only four items that come to mind: Blood of the Vampire's decent with smaller enemies, Placenta regenerates a half heart every 30 seconds which seems inefficient for a normal-paced run, the Leech does poor damage even with BFF, and Pyromaniac needs bombs to work or the handful of enemies that have explosion-based forms of damage. Same thing with use items, only Gamekid and Yum Heart heal and you need charges to make those work. Wooden Nickel is literally (and intentionally) 50/50 with chances to get a coin and even then you're not gonna have time to heal while still trapped in a room. Finally there's items generating coins, so here we go. Piggy Bank has the same problems with Wooden Nickel's safety mid-room when you only have so many invincibility frames. Midas' Touch isn't gonna do you much with larger, healthier enemies and bosses so it's not reliable unless you have invincibility, which is not gonna be at hand all the time. Head of the Keeper, as powerful as it is, still isn't safe and isn't reliable as a backup while fighting. Again, let's bring up the other characters. Blue Baby already can have stacked health so he's not a problem. Lost can take only two hits, but even then you can just hide over obstacles early game and backup with any use items/cards that give invincibility late game, maybe even using D4 as a throwaway when a desperate situation calls for a last shot. Keeper practically loses most good Deity items since he can't preserve deal chances and his lack of health holds him back from taking some Devil Deals, so he already lost a pool of powerful items. I don't hold it as a major problem, but his passive triple shot already doesn't synergize fully well with most items that would be fine in the game. Lost has similar health restrictions but his tear rate will still maintain itself enough to efficiently finish a room late game without dying, and Blue Baby is the same way.
Honestly the concept of the Keeper is interesting but its execution as a character feels about as unsatisfyingly simple as the old Lost without his Holy Mantle. A buff isn't absolutely necessary but hot damn would it be appreciated. Holding R just to try for a Swallowed Penny that hopefully would establish a run is just bad.

[ciężki kawał gnoja CKG]

bardzo ciekawe bardzo polecam

[RangedSpider]

Keeper makes me want to cry. It doesn't seem worth playing as him to unlock 1001% honestly.
Especially since his unlocks all suck.

[burn1none]

Originally posted by ExiledAlchemist:

He already has away to heal once you unlocked him starting with Wooden Nickel. If you combine that with other items like Charged Baby, and Habit you can use it more offten.

Store Key is a trinket he can start with as well. This allows players to always get into the shop and if they have the bombs they can blow up the donation machine to heal.

No real reason to buff him to be honest. You just have to know what his limit are and what works best for him. Besides he can still heal from items that instantly restores red heart damage. Plecenta for example will still regen coin health back.

Like everything that you describe that buffs him has to be unlocked by being successful with him. Don't you see how that's kinda a catch 22. Just saying

[RangedSpider]

Originally posted by ExiledAlchemist:

Getting a Deity Room is still possible heck it's still possible to get a two+ heart deals. Judas' Tongue will lower two heart deals to one. Blank Card + Credit Card gives all devil items for free, and don't forget Diplopia that can duplicate the item deal letting you take it for free. Just for one heart deals you can also use Blank Card + Strength Card do to the fact that for Keeper the added back coin container won't be removed when entering a new room/floor.

Actually Midas Touch is useful if you have The Poop. It maybe an RNG chance (then again 99% of the game is anyway) but it can still causes the poop to spawn as golden poop allowing you to get more then one coin. Wooden Nickel's coin spawn is based on luck stat so if you get lots of luck ups it's a higher chance to get a coin. Remember coins can give luck ups as well so it helps with this.

2 of Diamonds, Sun Card, and Full Health pill can also heal Keeper so it can be useful as well if you have the right space bar items to reuse them. Sure the space bar heal items outside of Wooden Nickel need more charges but that is what the battery items are for. Sack Head and Glitter bombs are also really great to get more drops. May not be a 100% chance of coins but it's still better then nothing. Heck Dr. Fetus + Glitter bombs can make things overpowered for Keeper because you get unlimted bombs to play with allowing you to spawn goodies at a higher rate. As for coin spawns I haven't seen an issue with this at all because of the number of ways to get coin drops and make more coins spawn it really isn't as bad as you think.

I could sit here spending hours talking all the various things that make Keeper work fine but I just don't have that kind of time to waste. I just don't see the need for a buff at all.

Those combinations are decent but hard to get and there doesn't seem to many that work exceedingly well.

I don't think him being a challenge character is a valid reason for how he is right now in my opinion and in my opinion he is a very un fun character that I would never play once I beat everything on hard mode with him once.

[burn1none]

Originally posted by ExiledAlchemist:

Getting a Deity Room is still possible heck it's still possible to get a two+ heart deals. Judas' Tongue will lower two heart deals to one. Blank Card + Credit Card gives all devil items for free, and don't forget Diplopia that can duplicate the item deal letting you take it for free. Just for one heart deals you can also use Blank Card + Strength Card do to the fact that for Keeper the added back coin container won't be removed when entering a new room/floor.

Actually Midas Touch is useful if you have The Poop. It maybe an RNG chance (then again 99% of the game is anyway) but it can still causes the poop to spawn as golden poop allowing you to get more then one coin. Wooden Nickel's coin spawn is based on luck stat so if you get lots of luck ups it's a higher chance to get a coin. Remember coins can give luck ups as well so it helps with this.

2 of Diamonds, Sun Card, and Full Health pill can also heal Keeper so it can be useful as well if you have the right space bar items to reuse them. Sure the space bar heal items outside of Wooden Nickel need more charges but that is what the battery items are for. Sack Head and Glitter bombs are also really great to get more drops. May not be a 100% chance of coins but it's still better then nothing. Heck Dr. Fetus + Glitter bombs can make things overpowered for Keeper because you get unlimted bombs to play with allowing you to spawn goodies at a higher rate. As for coin spawns I haven't seen an issue with this at all because of the number of ways to get coin drops and make more coins spawn it really isn't as bad as you think.

I could sit here spending hours talking all the various things that make Keeper work fine but I just don't have that kind of time to waste. I just don't see the need for a buff at all.

I'd hate to see the novel you'd write if you had hours