Keeper seems to be impossible and scripted

[Chris]

I managed to complete boss rush, it lives and ultra greed but now I'm stuck ... It seems like the game doesn't want I find a tears up and when there is a good run something like an "health down" pill destroy everything
It's frustrating and it's worse than my first 30h in TBOI:WOL(the first time I approach to this game)

P.S: win streak:-50 -.-

[Mox]

yeah dude its really hard with him. Are u playing on hard mode as well??? Trying unlocking wooden nickel for the keeper by beating isaac boss with keeper and it makes it a little bit easier. Also try to find head of keeper by bombsing the dead shop keepers or buying chaos in the shop. Its really really REALLY frustrating and half the time im using Keeper I wonder whats wrong with me because i get so pissed its not even fun, but oh well

[Cassilda]

The keeper only advantage is the ability to exploit sacrifice rooms for angel stuff. Leave as much money as you can on the ground and then just make back and forth to the sacrifice room. The 6th sacrifice give you a chance to get teleported to the devil/angel room, wich as good chances to be an angel room thanks to the previous sacrifices. The 7th give you a chance to get an angel room item. Further sacrifices let you fight the Angels who drop key pieces, wich in turn increase your chance to find angel rooms instead of devil ones.

Just don't go beyond 11 sacrifices (the second angel fight). You would probably regret it.

Note that it won't allways work and you can always get bad angel rooms with only soul and spirit hearths or bad items like holy water, but sometimes you get a Godhead... And its about the only thing the keeper can do better than other characters.

[Deviousdeviouz]

The easiest way to defeat the keeper is whenever you get bombs use them all on pots, eventually you will get swallowed coin. Whenever you take damage if you are careful enough you won't die. That, and obviously the factor of how lucky you get on your run. Also when you get swallowed coin go to the self sacrifice room and keep getting hurt until you have the key pieces if you want to defeat mega satan. GL

[Casey Ryback]

Originally posted by Rocket Racoon:

The easiest way to defeat the keeper is whenever you get bombs use them all on pots, eventually you will get swallowed coin. Whenever you take damage if you are careful enough you won't die. That, and obviously the factor of how lucky you get on your run. Also when you get swallowed coin go to the self sacrifice room and keep getting hurt until you have the key pieces if you want to defeat mega satan. GL

What this guy said. Swallowed Penny makes the run trivial (almost), and the good news is swallowed penny is not a rare drop, it actually drops often, usually from destroyed pots.

Keeper isn't that hard even without swallowed penny though. As soon as you start with wooden nickel, it becomes very easy, as you can usually get hit twice and still live.

[Chris]

In the run that make me crazy (tears rate 7 -.-) i follow all your help but the health down pill make it impossible ... I think I avoid all the pills from now
Thanks for the help buddies

[Tato]

I'm already done with Keeper and I'm glad about it. Like the others said, don't use pills, take no risks, unlock Wooden Nickel first and, if you aren't strong after the third floor, restart.

[Herr Sten]

Originally posted by Chris:

In the run that make me crazy (tears rate 7 -.-) i follow all your help but the health down pill make it impossible ... I think I avoid all the pills from now
Thanks for the help buddies

This is probably a good idea. Don't try ANY pills unless you have a health up available (i believe you can get the second coinHP back). Also you can try duplicate pills as hp down pills become hp up when you only have one coinHP.

[Mox]

Originally posted by Casey Ryback:

Originally posted by Rocket Racoon:

The easiest way to defeat the keeper is whenever you get bombs use them all on pots, eventually you will get swallowed coin. Whenever you take damage if you are careful enough you won't die. That, and obviously the factor of how lucky you get on your run. Also when you get swallowed coin go to the self sacrifice room and keep getting hurt until you have the key pieces if you want to defeat mega satan. GL

What this guy said. Swallowed Penny makes the run trivial (almost), and the good news is swallowed penny is not a rare drop, it actually drops often, usually from destroyed pots.

Keeper isn't that hard even without swallowed penny though. As soon as you start with wooden nickel, it becomes very easy, as you can usually get hit twice and still live.

I hate when people say this kind of thing.
"Keeper isn't that hard even without swallowed penny though. As soon as you start with wooden nickel, it becomes very easy, as you can usually get hit twice and still live."

So, is any thing in the game hard for you? You must be super good since all your keeper runs are very easy

[burn1none]

Never use pills with the Keeper unless you have two of the same pill on one floor or have phd. He's not impossible just very difficult. Also it's pretty easy to use sacrifice rooms with him, I've gotten godhead floor two and wrecked everything

[Casey Ryback]

Originally posted by Mox:

Originally posted by Casey Ryback:

What this guy said. Swallowed Penny makes the run trivial (almost), and the good news is swallowed penny is not a rare drop, it actually drops often, usually from destroyed pots.

Keeper isn't that hard even without swallowed penny though. As soon as you start with wooden nickel, it becomes very easy, as you can usually get hit twice and still live.

I hate when people say this kind of thing.
"Keeper isn't that hard even without swallowed penny though. As soon as you start with wooden nickel, it becomes very easy, as you can usually get hit twice and still live."

So, is any thing in the game hard for you? You must be super good since all your keeper runs are very easy

Sorry mate, I meant what I said, I was not exaggerating.

There is a 100% chance to drop a coin (right near you mind you) when you get hit, so while you have temporary invincibility you can just pick it back up and restore you health to two coins, that is why i am saying it is easy. Yes you can still die, remember i never said its a guaranteed win, just that it is easy with it.

Even without it, Keeper gets many coins and you can usually buy piggy bank, even without this, you would be smart to use wooden nickel in the room with enemies, not straight after clearing a room.

As for your question "Do I find anything hard?", yes I do. Beating Mega Satan with the lost is hard because you can only get hit twice no matter what, plus it is luck dependant for Angel Rooms to spawn whilst you have a good build, where as every other character you can just use sacrifice room.

Now that I have explained that, can you please tell me why you find Keeper hard if you have swallowed penny equipped?

[burn1none]

Originally posted by Casey Ryback:

Originally posted by Mox:

I hate when people say this kind of thing.
"Keeper isn't that hard even without swallowed penny though. As soon as you start with wooden nickel, it becomes very easy, as you can usually get hit twice and still live."

So, is any thing in the game hard for you? You must be super good since all your keeper runs are very easy

Sorry mate, I meant what I said, I was not exaggerating.

There is a 100% chance to drop a coin (right near you mind you) when you get hit, so while you have temporary invincibility you can just pick it back up and restore you health to two coins, that is why i am saying it is easy. Yes you can still die, remember i never said its a guaranteed win, just that it is easy with it.

Even without it, Keeper gets many coins and you can usually buy piggy bank, even without this, you would be smart to use wooden nickel in the room with enemies, not straight after clearing a room.

As for your question "Do I find anything hard?", yes I do. Beating Mega Satan with the lost is hard because you can only get hit twice no matter what, plus it is luck dependant for Angel Rooms to spawn whilst you have a good build, where as every other character you can just use sacrifice room.

Now that I have explained that, can you please tell me why you find Keeper hard if you have swallowed penny equipped?

Agreed. Tbh keeper has an easier time with the big 3 main bosses compared to lost just because of swallowed penny, head of the keeper, and wooden nickel+habit. The Lost just literally cannot get hit twice which makes at least the Hush much harder than with keeper. The only caveat to that is Lost usually has a much easier time getting safely to those bosses

[Hogweed]

My general guidelines for a Keeper run (some of this has been mentioned already):

1. Unlock the Wooden Nickel start for him. Do it on normal difficulty if you need to.
2. Always proc Wooden Nickel when you enter a room. This will give you a backup heal if it produces a coin.
3. Always leave some extra money lying around the level. Do a sweep before leaving or if you really need to buy something. Backtrack to coins as needed to heal.
4. Don't take unidentified pills unless you have a health up available or a duplicate of the pill you're trying. Health down pill does become a health up when you're on your last red heart (or coin in the Keeper's case).
5. Try to find a Swallowed Penny. As others have stated, it's a fairly common drop from pots.
6. R-scum for a powerful start (holy mantle, 20/20, etc...etc...).
7. Once you have Wooden Nickel you can also check Curse Rooms while R-scumming. You'll have a 50% chance to heal so you can get back out.
8. Try to break the game. Restock with 2 steam sales (possible with one SS if you have enough coins in your machine), Blank Card w/ Jera/Dice Shard, Cracked Dice w/ Swallowed Penny, etc...etc...
9. Chaos can allow you to get items that are normally hard for the Keeper to acquire (Devil Deal items specifically). Works best in combination with a breaking run.
10. Devil deal items can be taken if you prep for it (Store Credit, Diplopia, Judas' Tongue, Dead Cat w/ a reserved health up, going in with an ability to spawn a pedestal item and re-roll it, etc...).
11. The Keeper can use Sacrifice Rooms very well. Use them as much as you can. The doors don't lock when the angels spawn. Leave the first angel fight if you don't need the key pieces and re-enter to continue. Stop when the second angel spawns or risk being teleported to the Dark Room.
12. If you're working on achievements then avoid picking up extra life items that resurrect you as another character. The safe ones, off the top of my head, are Guppy's Collar, Dead Cat, and 1-Up.
13. Be very wary of items that change your tears to bombs/explosions. Good way to kill yourself. Only take if you're very comfortble with the item or have damage prevention capabilities (Host Hat, Pyromaniac, etc...).
14. There are some general game mechanic exploits (some are situation specific) that can help you if you're going for achievements and have a good run going. Use them as you feel comfortable with and as situations demand/allow; using Menu Exit and Continue to reset your position to the entrance of a room, leaving a room and re-entering to reset bomb timers, either of the previous will also remove momentum/movement from pickups, using bombs to move chests, forcing Super Greed to spawn in a Greed room to get them both out of the way at once, crawl space bombing, the list goes on and on and a lot of this comes with experience, research, and/or stream watching. May seem small but little things like these add up and allow you to extract more resources and handle more situations.


He'll still be a challenge, but he's possible. Good luck. Be patient, learn from your mistakes with him and you'll eventually make it. He plays very differently than the other characters.

Edit: Added a few more.
Edit2: For advanced and game breaking strategies I recommend Night_Affinity's archive and stream. His personality isn't for everyone, but if it doesn't bother you then you can learn a lot from him. He knows items, synergies, and mechanics very well and he's happy to share. As of this posting he's in the two hundreds on an Eden streak.

[Chris]

One run starts with epic fetus and ends with isaac, ???, Hush ad mega satan done *.*

[GamerGuyMike]

Originally posted by Chris:

One run starts with epic fetus and ends with isaac, ???, Hush ad mega satan done *.*

epic fetus on the keeper is scary with the 3 nukes

[Chris]

Originally posted by Volix:

Originally posted by Chris:

One run starts with epic fetus and ends with isaac, ???, Hush ad mega satan done *.*

epic fetus on the keeper is scary with the 3 nukes

Yeah with cricket's head, Steven, the halo and magic mashroom is destructive