Tainted Cain Nerf

[just a dang ol chimp]

Guess it was a matter of time. apparently having 3 items by the time you get to the womb is the definitive gaming experience

[JellyPuff]

This nerf wasn't at all surprising, considering it was possible to consistently rig the game, to allow you to do almost every unlock in a single run or even cheese every tainted-character's unlock, via getting OP and crafting The Clicker and maybe Moving Box+a couple R-Keys.

On the plus side, he has better starting stats.

[fromage_enrage]

These changes are really fking stupid.

[CJones]

So they made T Cain even less fun to play than he already is. What a great and necessary change

[Kharn the Betrayer]

Originally posted by They Call Me Steve:

These changes are really fking stupid.

[squat_instructor]

sheesh, no more character that is basically in-game breaking/debug tool with a third-party glossary for you to look up

this is so sad, Alexa, play Despacito

[Nazemec]

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

sheesh, no more character that is basically in-game breaking/debug tool with a third-party glossary for you to look up

this is so sad, Alexa, play Despacito

Same mindset here (minus the condescendence). I just can't imagine "giveitem command, the character" as something intended by the devs.

To me, T.Cain is supposed to be either "get a lot of random overall low quality items" or "get only a few but higher quality ones" depending on the player's strategy and skills. Exploiting his mechanics to the fullest and treating it as the only way to play him (and sometimes even complaining having to use external tools!) always felt weird to me. So I really don't mind this change.

[CJones]

Originally posted by Nazemec:

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

sheesh, no more character that is basically in-game breaking/debug tool with a third-party glossary for you to look up

this is so sad, Alexa, play Despacito

Same mindset here (minus the condescendence). I just can't imagine "giveitem command, the character" as something intended by the devs.

To me, T.Cain is supposed to be either "get a lot of random overall low quality items" or "get only a few but higher quality ones" depending on the player's strategy and skills. Exploiting his mechanics to the fullest and treating it as the only way to play him (and sometimes even complaining having to use external tools!) always felt weird to me. So I really don't mind this change.

You guys realize nobody is forcing you to play this way, right? All this change does is make him more of a pain in the ass to play. How is that good for anyone?

[Andy Milonakis Grandma]

Imagine not just using d20 and moms key lol

[fromage_enrage]

Originally posted by Andy Milonakis Grandma:

Imagine not just using d20 and moms key lol

And how exactly are you supposed to get these items

[Andy Milonakis Grandma]

Originally posted by They Call Me Steve:

Originally posted by Andy Milonakis Grandma:

Imagine not just using d20 and moms key lol

And how exactly are you supposed to get these items

They're usually not too hard to craft! :) ive gotten them on like 70% of my runs witho the trick

[just a dang ol chimp]

Originally posted by Nazemec:

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

sheesh, no more character that is basically in-game breaking/debug tool with a third-party glossary for you to look up

this is so sad, Alexa, play Despacito

Same mindset here (minus the condescendence). I just can't imagine "giveitem command, the character" as something intended by the devs.

To me, T.Cain is supposed to be either "get a lot of random overall low quality items" or "get only a few but higher quality ones" depending on the player's strategy and skills. Exploiting his mechanics to the fullest and treating it as the only way to play him (and sometimes even complaining having to use external tools!) always felt weird to me. So I really don't mind this change.

Yeah. I'm with this. I'm not at all against the change. I mean you've kindof nailed it with your descsription, t.cain for me has basically been 'scoop up 8 coins and then grind the secret room until overpowered' so you comparison to using the console is right on. I just think the idea of t.cain is better than the execution. I feel like when I play him I the items I end up getting aren't really worth the pickups that I sacrificed. I think in order for t.cain to be fun something has to change. perhaps the pickups gained from items should be fewer but of higher quality?

basically, I think the idea for t.cain is really cool but I just don't have fun playing the character.

[just a dang ol chimp]

Originally posted by Andy Milonakis Grandma:

Originally posted by They Call Me Steve:

And how exactly are you supposed to get these items

They're usually not too hard to craft! :) ive gotten them on like 70% of my runs witho the trick

expain this. are you just scooping up pickups until you get these items? do you look for pickups of specific rarity? I would really like to know how to reliably find these items.

[kone]

Originally posted by CJones:

You guys realize nobody is forcing you to play this way, right? All this change does is make him more of a pain in the ass to play. How is that good for anyone?

I love the character, from his inception of being ridiculously broken all the way to now. Though devil's advocate makes me feel that this is when people start to understand and teach others how to play this character intuitively, without relying on crutches and exploits. T. Cain is really involved in knowledge of the game and its mechanics which turns the character from a miserable slog that (always) eeks out a win, to something that rewards exceptional understanding and manipulation of the game.

Maybe this character is still just misunderstood, like how T. Lost was at the release of Repentance and now quite a few people say it's their favourite character. This also parallels how T. Jacob used to be exploited in early Repentance with numerous ways to disable Dark Esau, until that was fixed. Then now how people have to live with an unkillable Dark Esau, the character is still engaging to certain people despite all that was lost.

[fromage_enrage]

Originally posted by Andy Milonakis Grandma:

Originally posted by They Call Me Steve:

And how exactly are you supposed to get these items

They're usually not too hard to craft! :) ive gotten them on like 70% of my runs witho the trick

What trick is it exactly?
But that's the thing anyway. I don't use tricks. I don't cheat. I'm not a ♥♥♥♥♥.

[just a dang ol chimp]

Originally posted by kitten exterminator:

Originally posted by CJones:

You guys realize nobody is forcing you to play this way, right? All this change does is make him more of a pain in the ass to play. How is that good for anyone?

I love the character, from his inception of being ridiculously broken all the way to now. Though devil's advocate makes me feel that this is when people start to understand and teach others how to play this character intuitively, without relying on crutches and exploits. T. Cain is really involved in knowledge of the game and its mechanics which turns the character from a miserable slog that (always) eeks out a win, to something that rewards exceptional understanding and manipulation of the game.

Maybe this character is still just misunderstood, like how T. Lost was at the release of Repentance and now quite a few people say it's their favourite character. This also parallels how T. Jacob used to be exploited in early Repentance with numerous ways to disable Dark Esau, until that was fixed. Then now how people have to live with an unkillable Dark Esau, the character is still engaging to certain people despite all that was lost.

Yes exactly. This isn't so bad, we just need to find a new way to break this character. Someone in this thread mentioned d20 and mom's key which is a pretty good idea for farming pickups. I think as well that theres a lot of potential with blank card. Book of sin, fanny pack, basically any item that spawn pickups is your best friend with t.cain. Maybe I'll actually go back and try him out again.