Why is " The Nail" a 2 Heart DEvil Deal Item?!??

[Mox]

I dont get it?> I always thought this item was very average to below average for actives. Yet it costs two hearts!!! Same for Judas Shadow. When u consider they cost 2 hearts!
Whats a full list of 2 heart DD items look like if someone has it? I bet these two are the worst, maybe. But to my original point there is no way it should cost 2 hearts. Yeah i know you get a soul heart but its just a little damage up plus speed down, oh and 6bar charge.

Does anyone think im wrong in this context?

[Methrin]

Shouldn't even be a devil room item, it just sucks.

[Tato]

The Nail is amazing. Damage boost plus a soulheart to protect my red health? Yes please. Judas' Shadow can be used to get Judas' Damage Booster AND it's a 1UP.

[Mox]

Originally posted by Dasky:

The Nail is amazing. Damage boost plus a soulheart to protect my red health? Yes please. Judas' Shadow can be used to get Judas' Damage Booster AND it's a 1UP.

hmm, yeah, so im saying in the context of other two heart devil deal item it sucks. I personally would never use The Nail because of what i said about the speed loss and the 6 room charge combined with two hearts. But if you think its "amazing" thats fine, its just not for me. There are sooo many 1 heart DD items id rather have and thats not even getting into 2 heart items. Id much rather get something that gives a permanant damage increase or has a better charge rate.

Judas Shadow is crap if you are purposely playing with a certain character to unlock something, which I almost always am. If you dont care about losing your character and just want to go on once you have died then its fine but again in the context of 2 heart dd items it sucks.

[beautheschmo]

In the context of 2-heart deals, it's only ok (beats Satanic Bible, Lil' Brimstone and maybe The Pact and Lord of the Pit [which itself is mostly crappy because of having a superior alternative, in Spirit of the Night]), but as far as spacebar items from devil deals goes, it's by far the best unless you're fishing for Guppy transformation. Mega Blast isn't very useful imo, Guppy items aren't that good on their own, Razor Blade is lol, the Books (Belial, Sin, Necronomicon) are mediocre-to-bad, Satanic Bible is straight up worse for the same cost, and We Need to go Deeper isn't very useful or fun to use.

The biggest issue with The Nail is that its 6 room charge time and mediocre damage boost make it not all that fun to use, and being a spacebar item means that there are going to be situations where you don't want to pick it up, but the soul heart, damage boost and rock smashing are all really useful effects all rolled up into one item. It's nearly run-winningly strong on its own despite the charge time thanks to all the effects it has, and is totally worth the 2-heart cost, but I can totally understand that it's difficult to really appreciate how powerful it is

[xttt]

asd

[Danic]

haha

[Herr Sten]

FYI: shadow judas has double damage multiplier. That's a lot. Could be fun once in a while to go shadow judas and be a true glasscannon (until you get HP ups)

However i kinda agree on the nail. A damage boost + soulheart + stompy(that's still in, right?) is awkward to time right.

[AutumnLeaf]

Originally posted by The Wise Sten:

FYI: However i kinda agree on the nail. A damage boost + soulheart + stompy(that's still in, right?) is awkward to time right.

Yes, the Nail still provides the stompy effect. Also, there's a slight speed down applied when used, but yeah, it's still a good spacebar item.

[Phaper]

Originally posted by Mox:

I dont get it?> I always thought this item was very average to below average for actives. Yet it costs two hearts!!! Same for Judas Shadow. When u consider they cost 2 hearts!
Whats a full list of 2 heart DD items look like if someone has it? I bet these two are the worst, maybe. But to my original point there is no way it should cost 2 hearts. Yeah i know you get a soul heart but its just a little damage up plus speed down, oh and 6bar charge.

Does anyone think im wrong in this context?

The Nail is free breaking of tinted rocks/skulls/mushrooms/polyps/vases/rock, a soul heart, and a damage up every six rooms.

That's arguably better than either Satanic Bible or Book of Revelations.

Judas' Shadow is also the best life up, especially early on. It means you can suicide for a deal with the devilor or Suicide King, and come back significantly stronger, with black heart health. It's also always nice to have an extra life in your pocket and in terms of revival items, it's the only(?) one that will revive you significantly stronger.

[Mox]

Originally posted by Phaper:

Originally posted by Mox:

I dont get it?> I always thought this item was very average to below average for actives. Yet it costs two hearts!!! Same for Judas Shadow. When u consider they cost 2 hearts!
Whats a full list of 2 heart DD items look like if someone has it? I bet these two are the worst, maybe. But to my original point there is no way it should cost 2 hearts. Yeah i know you get a soul heart but its just a little damage up plus speed down, oh and 6bar charge.

Does anyone think im wrong in this context?

The Nail is free breaking of tinted rocks/skulls/mushrooms/polyps/vases/rock, a soul heart, and a damage up every six rooms.

That's arguably better than either Satanic Bible or Book of Revelations.

Judas' Shadow is also the best life up, especially early on. It means you can suicide for a deal with the devilor or Suicide King, and come back significantly stronger, with black heart health. It's also always nice to have an extra life in your pocket and in terms of revival items, it's the only(?) one that will revive you significantly stronger.

!!!BTW!!! There is no right answer, it just comes down to your play style and your personal preference :)

-my only problem with judas shadow is the character change like I said. If you dont mind that then its good.

-As far as The Nail, I just personally dont like it. The damage up is only 0.70 and there is a small speed down. The soul heart is the only thing worth wild for me. I would always take the Satanic Bible over The Nail because of the black heart and how much more valuable they are.

-If i have the choice between any guppy item or any permanent damage/tear up or Gimpy or any of the familiars plus a few others that are all just 1 heart dd items vs The nail, then Im taking any of those first.



!!!BTW!!! There is no right answer, it just comes down to your play style and your personal preference :)

[Justice]

Because it was one of the best spacebar items back in Original Isaac.
1) +1 sould heart on use
2) Damage boost
3) you can crush rock with it
4) contact damage

Screw you mate. Go play Original isaac and you will beg for this item to appear

[Mox]

Originally posted by Fusion:

I don't think you realize how good soul heart generation is, let alone soul heart generation that gives you a notable damage up for the room you use it one, as well as stompy which can be used to crush tinted rocks to (surprise surprise!) get more soul hearts.
It makes you nigh unkillable, as long as you're decent at the game.

Yes soul heart generation is nice I understand that:) I dont like the stompy effect a lot of the time because if your flying you cant take shelter anymore.The damage up is just ok ,its only 0.70. There is also a speed down(which I personally do not like). So for ME it is no better than say "The book of Revelations" and I Think that "The Satanic Bible" is better because of how awesome black hearts are.

I'm just always bummed out when I see "The Nail" in the Devil Room because id rather have sooo many other DD items instead and that IMHO it shouldnt really be a 2 heart item, but I guess when u add up all its effects it kinda is, kinda. Thats my main point.

if anyone else wants to reply to me Ill check and read them, then i think we are all probably done with this conversation.

[Rio]

I hate book of Rev, I don't want a ball of bandage/meat boy every first floor. The nail is a great item, but yeah I'd rather the satanic bible over it.

[Tato]

Originally posted by Mox:

.The damage up is just ok ,its only 0.70.
if anyone else wants to reply to me Ill check and read them, then i think we are all probably done with this conversation.

0.7 times your current damage multiplier, which is always around 1.5 at very minimum. Also

Originally posted by Fusion:

The pentagram is a 1 damage up. Think about that for a moment

[Phyre]

I Love the Nail and Judas' Shadow! The only downside to Judas' Shadow is the character switch if you're working on achievements, otherwise I think it's one of the better items in the game.

The Nail is amazing; just the Soul Heart generation basically ensures you have a chance for a devil deal every floor, plus you can then take devil deals to your hearts content for an entire run because you have a guranteed way for soul hearts. I like the Nail more than the Satanic Bible but both I think are very good items and because of the health generation a price of two red hearts is worth it. Either are great in concert with Empty Vessel.

If you get both Judas' Shadow and the Nail in one devil deal, then you're set and it's basically a guranteed win.

And that's my opinion=)