Kinda don't see the point of Dad's Key in Red Redemption challenge

[Razorkiller]

If I'm correct it's there for getting out of rooms while Esau is hostile.
But like, that's it? Is there any other potent way using this? Cause Dad's key looks easily replacable.

[TamanduaGirl]

Yeah, it did seem mostly useless, I just replaced it if I found a good active item.

[Senator Jim Death]

I don't remember using it much if at all. Like you said, it's probably just to give you a slightly better chance of getting off the floor (like, into a boss room without clearing the prior room) before all the Esaus catch you. Or maybe it helps prevent you from having to go a long way around by not being able to go through a Challenge or Secret room or something. I don't know if there's some well defined reason why it's what you're given for the challenge. Maybe it's part of the Red Dead Redemption reference?

On a different subject, I thought the room generation mechanics of that challenge were kind of fun and refreshing. They're sort of like a Binding of Isaac randomizer, if that makes sense for a game that's already so heavily randomized. If it weren't for the potential for having several Esaus after you at once I wouldn't mind playing it as a game mode. Sure, you need some kind of pressure to push you not to just map out the whole floor, and a simple time limit would be boring, but the combination of planning and praying needed to get that challenge right was kind of exasperating after a while, even if the trailblazing sort of game play was enjoyable.

[Razorkiller]

Originally posted by Senator Jim Death:

I don't remember using it much if at all. Like you said, it's probably just to give you a slightly better chance of getting off the floor (like, into a boss room without clearing the prior room) before all the Esaus catch you. Or maybe it helps prevent you from having to go a long way around by not being able to go through a Challenge or Secret room or something. I don't know if there's some well defined reason why it's what you're given for the challenge. Maybe it's part of the Red Dead Redemption reference?

On a different subject, I thought the room generation mechanics of that challenge were kind of fun and refreshing. They're sort of like a Binding of Isaac randomizer, if that makes sense for a game that's already so heavily randomized. If it weren't for the potential for having several Esaus after you at once I wouldn't mind playing it as a game mode. Sure, you need some kind of pressure to push you not to just map out the whole floor, and a simple time limit would be boring, but the combination of planning and praying needed to get that challenge right was kind of exasperating after a while, even if the trailblazing sort of game play was enjoyable.

Additionally if I'm correct, before Jacob and Esau got some overhaul and changes.
Where T. Esau no longer can be removed by an Eraser spacebar item or just killed on floor but would get more health per floor. When those were the days, Dad's key would mostly be even more useless I presume? But same deal. It's just back then I'd pretty much see no one using Dad's Key and instead try to maintain and control T. Esau(s) or remove him temporarily on the floor so you can freely explore.

[squat_instructor]

I feel like it's there to prevent some kind of obscure softlock DEVs ran into or smth like that

[TamanduaGirl]

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

I feel like it's there to prevent some kind of obscure softlock DEVs ran into or smth like that

That could be it. You can get error rooms and I've heard that rarely you can get an error room without a path down and be stuck.

[Senator Jim Death]

Originally posted by TamanduaGirl:

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

I feel like it's there to prevent some kind of obscure softlock DEVs ran into or smth like that

That could be it. You can get error rooms and I've heard that rarely you can get an error room without a path down and be stuck.

I actually think I did that to myself the first time I tried that challenge, and I don't think Dad's Key did me any good in that situation. It was my own fault for not paying attention to where I was. There wasn't a trapdoor because the next floor was beyond the scope of the challenge (I guess) and although I think I'd traded away Dad's Key by then I don't think the room would've had an available doorway back to where I was. But I guess I can't be sure.

[TamanduaGirl]

Originally posted by Senator Jim Death:

Originally posted by TamanduaGirl:

That could be it. You can get error rooms and I've heard that rarely you can get an error room without a path down and be stuck.

I actually think I did that to myself the first time I tried that challenge, and I don't think Dad's Key did me any good in that situation. It was my own fault for not paying attention to where I was. There wasn't a trapdoor because the next floor was beyond the scope of the challenge (I guess) and although I think I'd traded away Dad's Key by then I don't think the room would've had an available doorway back to where I was. But I guess I can't be sure.

I know normally you can't get back out of error rooms but normally you are teleported into them, in this case you can use the red key to get into it so I was thinking dad's key could open the path back up but I really don't know for sure either. The one time I got one during the challenge I was low on charges so I just took the path down. If it doesn't work the key remains mostly useless.

[UwU]

Originally posted by TamanduaGirl:

Originally posted by Senator Jim Death:

I actually think I did that to myself the first time I tried that challenge, and I don't think Dad's Key did me any good in that situation. It was my own fault for not paying attention to where I was. There wasn't a trapdoor because the next floor was beyond the scope of the challenge (I guess) and although I think I'd traded away Dad's Key by then I don't think the room would've had an available doorway back to where I was. But I guess I can't be sure.

I know normally you can't get back out of error rooms but normally you are teleported into them, in this case you can use the red key to get into it so I was thinking dad's key could open the path back up but I really don't know for sure either. The one time I got one during the challenge I was low on charges so I just took the path down. If it doesn't work the key remains mostly useless.

you can't enter error rooms with red key on this challenge, the outline for the door just doesn't exist, same for leaving, but it shouldn't be possible either way even on normal runs

[Senator Jim Death]

Originally posted by UwU:

Originally posted by TamanduaGirl:

I know normally you can't get back out of error rooms but normally you are teleported into them, in this case you can use the red key to get into it so I was thinking dad's key could open the path back up but I really don't know for sure either. The one time I got one during the challenge I was low on charges so I just took the path down. If it doesn't work the key remains mostly useless.

you can't enter error rooms with red key on this challenge, the outline for the door just doesn't exist, same for leaving, but it shouldn't be possible either way even on normal runs

Huh, that's so, isn't it? I know I was softlocked, so I must've teleported into it with Undefined or Telepills or something.

[UwU]

Originally posted by Senator Jim Death:

Originally posted by UwU:

you can't enter error rooms with red key on this challenge, the outline for the door just doesn't exist, same for leaving, but it shouldn't be possible either way even on normal runs

Huh, that's so, isn't it? I know I was softlocked, so I must've teleported into it with Undefined or Telepills or something.

Most likely. Teleporting should also be the only way out of it

[JellyPuff]

Originally posted by squat_instructor:

I feel like it's there to prevent some kind of obscure softlock DEVs ran into or smth like that

From the top of my head, i can think of Telepills or Undefined being able to softlock you, if it sends you to a room with only locked special rooms adjacent to it. If it is even possible, that Red Redemption can generate a floor with a room like that.

Perhaps it's just a failsafe, because the dev thought, that there's softlock potential, without any specific softlock encountered during playtesting.

Or maybe it was just added as a gimmick, "because key".