Repentance is full of bafflingly awful design choices

[Szabolcs]

I had high hopes for thie new expansion, especially after hearing a lot of positive thoughts from Isaac veterans (I guess that was mostly because they were bored by a game that was too easy for them, and anything new and challenging was nice).

The new floors, items, enemies, bosses, etc. are great, for the most part... however, the whole thing is structured in such a stupid way that I'm at a loss for words.

- Knife piece 2: Really, really bad. You have to learn a new mechanic with these pink bombs while dodging something. And all of your items are disabled, meaning it's completely removed from your run, like playing a whole different game that still kills your run. As I said elsewhere, it's like playing Final Fantasy I, and halfway throguh the final dungeon you have to play through 8-4 of SMB: The Lost Levels, and if you die, you get a game over. Really bad design, thank God for Azazel, but he is a hinderance for a bossfight such as Mother which requires range. And speaking of which...

- Mother. Without commenting on the fight itself, the lack of HP bar is infuriating. You have zero feedback whether you are doing well or not, how much is left, is your item loadout effective or not to plan for future runs. The textbook definition os artificual difficulty.

- And in general, it's just badly structured. Downpour 1 and Mines 1 are literally disadvantageous so it makes zero sense to go there. Also none of the new floors are worth it if you are not going for Mother. All this new content, all the new enemies, bosses, graphics are locked to a part of the game that is only related to a single path with a single ending. There is no risk-reward with the new floors, just increased difficulty without any extra reward.

[The Renderer]

Yeah, I mostly agree, especially on the new floors being too optional and not really worth going to. I disagree on your first point, though. It's up to taste whether one likes the different play style for the knife piece, but it isn't very hard once you learn how it works. And since there are no items, it's even the same difficulty every time.

[squat_instructor]

Repentance is not just alt path and Mother fight (all of which is literally a mod integrated into the game and has little to no nuanced background and lore connections to the main game). It is also a lot of new items, trinkets, pickups, enemies, new synergies (incl. synergies of old items), reworks and buffs + twice the characters and Beast route

[Szabolcs]

The Beast route feels way better than the alt path with its shenanigans.

Yes I finally beat the Mother route by a strangely simple yet ridiculously overpowered combo... Gnawed Leaf + Gemini, using Azazel of course.

But... why is it The Beast? What does it represent in the story? I feel like Dogma should be the final boss, or am I missing something?

[Dbonez]

Well, for one you do get rewarded for going down alt paths via extra blind item choices in your item rooms(this especially comes in handy with J&E).

Additionally, the mother sequence is quite easy once you get the hang of it (the game even gives you a chance to use the special bombs in one of the prior bossfights). One thing to keep in mind is if you stand completely still, mother's shadow will not directly collide with you unless charging. It will gradually slow down upon getting close to you and eventually stop before it charges again.

Also, I would probably avoid playing Azazel unless going for unlocks as he doesn't really help you get better at positioning or playing most of the other characters.

I agree with the sentiment about the mother bossfight though, as I'm still salty about losing the Isaac's awakening challenge because I thought I could tank the rest of the fight. Skill issue on my part I guess.

[Nazemec]

Originally posted by Szabolcs:

But... why is it The Beast? What does it represent in the story? I feel like Dogma should be the final boss, or am I missing something?

Pretty sure Dogma is religion (or to quote the intro, the fanatic "christian broadcasts from the TV"), and the Beast is Isaac's Mom (turned into a monster by Dogma - you can actually see parts of her dress at the bottom of the creature).

[JudasofBelial]

Originally posted by Nazemec:

Originally posted by Szabolcs:

But... why is it The Beast? What does it represent in the story? I feel like Dogma should be the final boss, or am I missing something?

Pretty sure Dogma is religion (or to quote the intro, the fanatic "christian broadcasts from the TV"), and the Beast is Isaac's Mom (turned into a monster by Dogma - you can actually see parts of her dress at the bottom of the creature).

The Beast is in reference to the Beast from the Book of Revelations in the Bible. The track name "Revelations 13-1" is even in reference to it's first appearance. But yeah, it's also Mom yet again.

[Zero Grim]

Originally posted by Creeping Pastor:

If knife piece 2 is killing your runs then you're not a veteran. If you think mother is the first instance of a boss not having a health bar then you're not a veteran. If you don't think the alt paths have any benefit then you are not a veteran. If you die on 8-4 of SMB: The Lost Levels then you are a ♥♥♥♥ Mario player. That game is actually for children. It's a Nintendo game.

Bow down people, we have found the literal Isaac god here, lets all praise them and care about what they think!

On a more real note, if expansions for games were only bought by veterans you literally would never see a game get an update...ever.

[Jackkyto]

aguante messi

[Szabolcs]

Originally posted by Creeping Pastor:

If knife piece 2 is killing your runs then you're not a veteran. If you think mother is the first instance of a boss not having a health bar then you're not a veteran. If you don't think the alt paths have any benefit then you are not a veteran. If you die on 8-4 of SMB: The Lost Levels then you are a ♥♥♥♥ Mario player. That game is actually for children. It's a Nintendo game.

First of all, why do you have to be so mean? Does it add anything to what you are trying to say? Second, did I ever call myself a veteran? I don't remember that. If being a "veteran" makes you so good that bad design choices don't affect you... then they are still bad choices.

Third, then what is the first insnance of a boss not having a health bar? I sure don't remember any, and I've done all endings and most challenges up to Afterbirth+.

And fourth, I'm not "dying on SMB 8-4" because I actually am a veteran Mario player, but that's because I played tons of it. But if someone never played Mario, it's a bit too harsh, and my main issue was with having a completely different set of mechanics and rules than the rest of the game anyway.

The fact that I could overcome said BS challenge because of my experience does not mean my hopythetical scenario would be a good choice.

[F IAaP n]

The alt. path floors aren't useless.
Double items (visible + blind) in Treasure rooms alone are enough of a reason to go there.
The knife is simply strong – no reason not to build it when you can. Though, I agree that Knife piece 2 part loses its novelty after the first time and becomes a chore.
Going only to Downpour II and Mines II ensures all the challenge rooms you find are the ones with the boss item – perfect for Lost and Keeper.
Going to Downpour I and Mines I is good if you plan to use the non-boss challenge room to charge your active item. Book of Revelations is the perfect example – the Harbingers don't spawn in alt. path. In fact, Downpour I is particularly good if you want to avoid Cellar's bosses.
Going to Mausoleum gives you a whole additional floor with the Shop and the Treasure room.

You can look at alt. path simply as a risk/reward mechanic – the floors are harder, but they're worth it if you're up to the challenge.

[Nazemec]

Originally posted by Szabolcs:

Third, then what is the first insnance of a boss not having a health bar? I sure don't remember any, and I've done all endings and most challenges up to Afterbirth+.

You mean Mega Satan? In the game since Rebirth?

[🖕 🖕]

Hard Disagree. High Risk, but you also get high reward (all new characters + unlocks). Worth it to me. It is the alt path, anyway. Repentance was a change for the better, all it took was some time getting used to the changes imo.

[The Fool]

There is 100% risk-reward for the new floors:

-Most obviously, each of the treasure rooms on the alt-path floors gives you the choice between the shown item and the blind item, rather than just the one item.
-Downpour 2 gives you an extra boss item if you kill the mirror world boss, potentially a second bonus item if you can reroll the knife piece (if you don’t want to complete the knife, obviously), and extra mirror world pickups. Plus you can save health and devil/angel room chance as The Lost (and not miss items due to lack of flight).
-Completing the knife gives you a decently powerful familiar.
-Going mausoleum gives you an extra floor of shop/treasure rooms, as well as an extra floor of only taking half heart damage instead of full heart.
-Mausoleum boss rush gives you 25 minutes to hit it, so depending on what you’ve picked up and when in the run you got it it can be much easier to hit that than standard boss rush.

Alt path is very worth considering on non-mother runs, especially downpour 2 and potentially mausoleum if you can afford the 2 hearts.

As for your other points, knife piece 2 is annoying, but once you get use to it it’s not that bad, even on non-flying characters. Just take it slow - mom’s shadow will never hit you if it’s not charging and you’re standing still. So whenever you need to make a big move, stand still until it starts charging, then move out of the way (its hitbox is much smaller than its sprite), then make your move. It is kind of long, though, and definitely makes hitting boss rush much harder, even for flying characters.

-I don’t particularly care for Mother’s lack of a health bar, but it’s not unprecedented given Mega Satan has always had the same thing. Though Mega Satan, admittedly, was almost never a challenge until Repentance gave him boss armor.

[Bobbysagget69]

Cope seeth mald

[HoboRockBox]

I agree. In general, I'm not a big fan of the expansion. It doesn't seem very well made, especially compared to the previous expansions