The game sucks now. Shot speed WTF

[RedRide]

I get the change to devil deals and changes made to the item pool. BUT WTF no need to change attack speeds and shot speeds of every enemy. I've got 800 plus hours learning how to dodge and getting attack patterns down, now even simple mobs suck. Definitely not fun to play any more. Might be OK if you are new to the game and like getting ♥♥♥♥ on for hours. Not going to be playing anymore and relearning attack patterns and speeds for old enemies!

[11clock]

Normal mode is practically the same. Hard mode was buffed because the devs felt that it wasn't hard enough.

[Jazz]

When I first played the DLC I nearly shat myself when I entered a room full of horfs lmao

[Edward H.B]

ok

[Zoobi]

hard mode wasnt hard at all before since the only thing it did was spawn more champions and made good items more rare so hard mode really required no extra skill, but now it does

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by Edward H.B:

ok

[Toxi]

Originally posted by LilyAndRobbGodZ:

hard mode wasnt hard at all before since the only thing it did was spawn more champions and made good items more rare so hard mode really required no extra skill, but now it does

oh yeah and everyone knows this, by, the fact that, most discussions about difficulty were of people talking about how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Greedier mode and Delirium were and still are.

Also, explain to me how making good items more rare makes hard mode require more "skill"?

[WitchAmy]

Originally posted by toxicitzi:

Originally posted by LilyAndRobbGodZ:

hard mode wasnt hard at all before since the only thing it did was spawn more champions and made good items more rare so hard mode really required no extra skill, but now it does

oh yeah and everyone knows this, by, the fact that, most discussions about difficulty were of people talking about how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Greedier mode and Delirium were and still are.

Also, explain to me how making good items more rare makes hard mode require more "skill"?

Because you can't just destroy everything with one item. You need to think of the strategy and use only what you've got.

[orian34]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

Because you can't just destroy everything with one item. You need to think of the strategy and use only what you've got.

That's ironic, because I agree for normal runs, but greedier prevents you from doing that. It's so overwhelmingly unfair for some characters, it forces you to cheese with restart and a broken item at the start to have a chance at winning.

[Toxi]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

Originally posted by toxicitzi:

oh yeah and everyone knows this, by, the fact that, most discussions about difficulty were of people talking about how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Greedier mode and Delirium were and still are.

Also, explain to me how making good items more rare makes hard mode require more "skill"?

Because you can't just destroy everything with one item. You need to think of the strategy and use only what you've got.

If we go by this reductive generalization, even the nerfed version of Brimstone right now is one such item that "Destroys Everything" and this happens now too, and all in all, nothing has fundamentally changed about what you just said and it's no surprise either..

If you tried to restrict/gimp the player even more than right now, all you'll succeed in doing is taking off the paper that covers the chasms of bad game design and put a magnifying glass over some of the enemies of the game and combination of enemies / room layouts.

Examples? 2 Adversaries in a large room. 2 Cages. 4 Red Champion Cages. 6 Red Champion Gurdy Jrs.

These I think existed since Rebirth, but I could be wrong about that, it's possible that AB or AB+ introduced these amazingly well thought out Chest / Dark Room encounters.

[YCGTW]

Lol it took me a day to get used to the changes for the old mobs. I'm convinced these people with 800+ hours previously just held down the R key until they got tech x to walk through the game. Sounds fun.

[MoArtis]

Originally posted by YCGTW:

Lol it took me a day to get used to the changes for the old mobs. I'm convinced these people with 800+ hours previously just held down the R key until they got tech x to walk through the game. Sounds fun.

The opposite for me. I started to press that R key way more often due to the DLC. And I have to admit, it works. And yeah it's clearly not fun.
Zanny synergies and broken items pre-DLC ensured that any runs were really feasible (and exciting) without being an ass-clenching experience for most players.
That being said, there are still many broken items in Repentance that can carry an entire run pretty much by themselves. Like the Psy Fly or Virgo.
So I'm not even sure about the point of making the process of unlocking everything and completing the challenge so tedious.

[WitchAmy]

Originally posted by orian34:

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

Because you can't just destroy everything with one item. You need to think of the strategy and use only what you've got.

That's ironic, because I agree for normal runs, but greedier prevents you from doing that. It's so overwhelmingly unfair for some characters, it forces you to cheese with restart and a broken item at the start to have a chance at winning.

Greed Mode sucks. I can agree with that.

[WitchAmy]

Originally posted by toxicitzi:

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

Because you can't just destroy everything with one item. You need to think of the strategy and use only what you've got.

If we go by this reductive generalization, even the nerfed version of Brimstone right now is one such item that "Destroys Everything" and this happens now too, and all in all, nothing has fundamentally changed about what you just said and it's no surprise either..

If you tried to restrict/gimp the player even more than right now, all you'll succeed in doing is taking off the paper that covers the chasms of bad game design and put a magnifying glass over some of the enemies of the game and combination of enemies / room layouts.

Examples? 2 Adversaries in a large room. 2 Cages. 4 Red Champion Cages. 6 Red Champion Gurdy Jrs.

These I think existed since Rebirth, but I could be wrong about that, it's possible that AB or AB+ introduced these amazingly well thought out Chest / Dark Room encounters.

The rooms you are talking about are from Nicalis times. Put the blame on them, not on Edmund or antibirth team.

[Toxi]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

Originally posted by toxicitzi:

If we go by this reductive generalization, even the nerfed version of Brimstone right now is one such item that "Destroys Everything" and this happens now too, and all in all, nothing has fundamentally changed about what you just said and it's no surprise either..

If you tried to restrict/gimp the player even more than right now, all you'll succeed in doing is taking off the paper that covers the chasms of bad game design and put a magnifying glass over some of the enemies of the game and combination of enemies / room layouts.

Examples? 2 Adversaries in a large room. 2 Cages. 4 Red Champion Cages. 6 Red Champion Gurdy Jrs.

These I think existed since Rebirth, but I could be wrong about that, it's possible that AB or AB+ introduced these amazingly well thought out Chest / Dark Room encounters.

The rooms you are talking about are from Nicalis times. Put the blame on them, not on Edmund or antibirth team.

I'm not letting Edmund off the hook here, even if half of this expansion is enjoyable, I'm not doing that after the balls busting efforts of Lost in Greedier mode only to be met with what might as well have been empty Devil rooms, something that has existed since AB+.

My problem isn't with just growing pains, that I can manage just fine on my own and I trust that other players will too, but more so with the game's balance veering too much in only the direction of reducing player options, like how they've reverted some of the more extremely unnecessary changes such as with the Shops.

The other ones I can name here are, taking away Lost's ability to take any number of devil deals, Devil deals containing a lot more random items and what makes that a problem, is those items not seeing buffs that they should have, considering that these are Devil deal items, That's what's actually a problem there... It's not as simple as, "Oh Noes, I did not get my free Abaddon again...."
Of course I don't want every single run to have ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Abaddon or Brimstone, but I would like at the very least for items that replace them to be somewhat good for their asking price, even if it replaces something as simple of a upgrade as The Mark, that would shift the meta in a meaningful way for more options to be viable.

[YCGTW]

Originally posted by MoArtis:

Originally posted by YCGTW:

Lol it took me a day to get used to the changes for the old mobs. I'm convinced these people with 800+ hours previously just held down the R key until they got tech x to walk through the game. Sounds fun.

The opposite for me. I started to press that R key way more often due to the DLC. And I have to admit, it works. And yeah it's clearly not fun.
Zanny synergies and broken items pre-DLC ensured that any runs were really feasible (and exciting) without being an ass-clenching experience for most players.
That being said, there are still many broken items in Repentance that can carry an entire run pretty much by themselves. Like the Psy Fly or Virgo.
So I'm not even sure about the point of making the process of unlocking everything and completing the challenge so tedious.

It seems obvious to me that the point of all that was longevity (after all, if you have this DLC chances are you payed about 60 dollars in total for it.) To fully beat the new paths I think you definitely need the right items, but that doesn't mean you need to hold the R button until you get something sexy in your first item room. There's always more chances each floor for something good and if nothing comes then the game always gives you the opportunity to go back to the regular path where you will be more prepared for. These new floors come off to me as a balance of trial and error (just like our first runs in the original game years ago), honing your skills to new challenges, and of course, getting the right items. It's locked behind 3 hush kills so its not like it is meant for new players. It's meant to give old players a lot more game time.

As far as being disappointed that all our favorite game breaking synergies that we grew to love are gone, we just have to accept that this was not fully Edmund's intentions for the most part (at least that's what I gathered from interviews etc.) This is his game after all. I feel like it's a double edged sword that he is so interactive with the players because it gives a soapbox for fussy players.