New Co-Op is worse than old Co-Op (A rant and all my opinion, obviously)

[SapTheSquid]

I love that you can pick actual characters but co-op is only fun until one of you dies. Then it is tedious and kinda trash.

You do no damage, you have to share items you find (except boss items where you get two).

You respawn after killing the boss at... half a heart; making it so that you may very easily die again. This leads to you doing no damage for nearly the entire floor and not being able to use or do anything. But you can't afk because the camera follows both of you and will screw the other player. So now you have to play but can't do basically anything. Where's the fun? For me there isn't any.

I'd rather have the old co-op where you inherited items and had to rejoin if you died. New co-op seems kinda whatever. I love playing co-op with friends but this new co-op makes me not want to play it.

I don't know how they could change it without it being either ridiculously broken (in a good way) or awful. I just know that it annoys me.

[Ninja ZombieYoshi]

I'm pretty sure old co-op is still there though?
Just get players 2-4 to spawn anywhere but the very start of the game, like in an item room or something, and it should still work like normal.
Heck, I'm pretty sure if you have enough players some can be additional Isaacs and some can be standard co-op babies. Not sure why you're typing like old co-op is gone.
Honestly the only thing preventing new co-op from being a pure upside to me is all the bugs that are related to it.

[SapTheSquid]

Originally posted by Ninja ZombieYoshi:

I'm pretty sure old co-op is still there though?
Just get players 2-4 to spawn anywhere but the very start of the game, like in an item room or something, and it should still work like normal.
Heck, I'm pretty sure if you have enough players some can be additional Isaacs and some can be standard co-op babies. Not sure why you're typing like old co-op is gone.
Honestly the only thing preventing new co-op from being a pure upside to me is all the bugs that are related to it.

I'm typing like old co-op is gone because new co-op was supposed to be the best version of co-op and currently isn't.

[Slice of Thanatoast]

Your damage isn't reduced in any way and you get an additional boss item for each player so that each player has a chance to increase their stats. Just divide who gets what treasure items and you'll be fine.

If you keep dying with co-op that sounds like a you problem because I have played with 3 different friends in 2 player co-op and we rarely have someone die. In fact co-op in it's current state is extremely easy even if you get trash items.

Some items are even stronger such as Maggy with Yum Heart since it heals everyone which means you can easily get all the good Sacrifice Room rewards. And choosing characters that work well together such as using Bethany who can't use soul hearts properly and someone like ??? who can only use soul hearts means you'll have less problems with dividing the resources.

The only problems I think co-op has is that with 3 or more players there are so little resources to go around that everyone ends up being constantly at low health unless you have someone with an active item that generates hearts or items.

[SapTheSquid]

Originally posted by Not Thanatoast:

Your damage isn't reduced in any way and you get an additional boss item for each player so that each player has a chance to increase their stats. Just divide who gets what treasure items and you'll be fine.

If you keep dying with co-op that sounds like a you problem because I have played with 3 different friends in 2 player co-op and we rarely have someone die. In fact co-op in it's current state is extremely easy even if you get trash items.

Some items are even stronger such as Maggy with Yum Heart since it heals everyone which means you can easily get all the good Sacrifice Room rewards. And choosing characters that work well together such as using Bethany who can't use soul hearts properly and someone like ??? who can only use soul hearts means you'll have less problems with dividing the resources.

The only problems I think co-op has is that with 3 or more players there are so little resources to go around that everyone ends up being constantly at low health unless you have someone with an active item that generates hearts or items.

If you read my post, a lot of the argument I make to why new co-op is terrible is when you die. You may as well just stop playing. You do nothing. You respawn with half a heart so you're more than likely going to die early on the next floor unless you get saved in some miraculous way. Where is the fun in that?

You must be some god gamer if you rarely die. Congratulations on your victories. If you get trash items it can be incredibly tough on hard mode.

It's terrible design if you have to pick certain characters just for synergy. What about if you want to unlock things on other characters? Can't play them because you either have to synergise or lose?

2 player new co-op is just kinda bad compared to old co-op.

[Slice of Thanatoast]

Pretty much any roguelite is going to be boring if you keep dying, co-op or not. That's less of a problem with the game and more of a problem with your skill. You get respawned when the boss is killed and it typically drops a heart or a boss item that gives health. You can also save soul hearts around the level and just grab red hearts when needed and only take the souls hearts after the level is done.

You don't have to pick characters that have synergies, I'm just saying you might need it since it seems like you are struggling. Also me and my friends aren't particularly great at dodging, we just know how to divide our resources so we don't die.

[ToxicBoo]

Originally posted by SapTheSquidKing:

Originally posted by Not Thanatoast:

Your damage isn't reduced in any way and you get an additional boss item for each player so that each player has a chance to increase their stats. Just divide who gets what treasure items and you'll be fine.

If you keep dying with co-op that sounds like a you problem because I have played with 3 different friends in 2 player co-op and we rarely have someone die. In fact co-op in it's current state is extremely easy even if you get trash items.

Some items are even stronger such as Maggy with Yum Heart since it heals everyone which means you can easily get all the good Sacrifice Room rewards. And choosing characters that work well together such as using Bethany who can't use soul hearts properly and someone like ??? who can only use soul hearts means you'll have less problems with dividing the resources.

The only problems I think co-op has is that with 3 or more players there are so little resources to go around that everyone ends up being constantly at low health unless you have someone with an active item that generates hearts or items.

If you read my post, a lot of the argument I make to why new co-op is terrible is when you die. You may as well just stop playing. You do nothing. You respawn with half a heart so you're more than likely going to die early on the next floor unless you get saved in some miraculous way. Where is the fun in that?

You must be some god gamer if you rarely die. Congratulations on your victories. If you get trash items it can be incredibly tough on hard mode.

It's terrible design if you have to pick certain characters just for synergy. What about if you want to unlock things on other characters? Can't play them because you either have to synergise or lose?

2 player new co-op is just kinda bad compared to old co-op.

Bosses usually drop red hearts though? You shouldn't usually be stuck with literally half a heart to work with, not to mention the abundance of health ups in the boss item pool.

[Bluddy]

Since most rogue-lites are variations on simple genres like twin stick shooters and sidescrollers, it's very easy to add another player. No need for networking or anything.

However, the reality is that rogue-lites that offer co-op have to decide: are they going to try to remain challenging, or are they going to just let you have fun and beat the game easily? It's not an easy choice. If they want to remain challenging in any way, they can't let you respawn easily, because they whole point of rogue-lites is permadeath. But then it's not so fun - co-op always has deaths. So there's no easy solution here.

[Violeta]

My biggest problem is they revive with one hit and only after boss kill. What if you want to go into the devil deal? What if you want to fight the angel statue? What if you want to do boss rush? etc.

Now your friend has waited forever to really play again and they die instantly in the next room.

Its even worse if they only had spirit hearts. Because now they only revive with half a spirit heart.

[Slice of Thanatoast]

Originally posted by ⛧White⛧:

My biggest problem is they revive with one hit and only after boss kill. What if you want to go into the devil deal? What if you want to fight the angel statue? What if you want to do boss rush? etc.

Now your friend has waited forever to really play again and they die instantly in the next room.

Its even worse if they only had spirit hearts. Because now they only revive with half a spirit heart.

You died in a roguelite game, the fact that your friend is still allowed to play is being generous. It could be super easy to abuse if they spawned with more than 1 hearts since you could use a blood donation machine, or sacrifice room and then intentionally kill yourself at before beating the boss in order to have more health than before.

[DELIRIUM]

i just think two item should spown into item room and for the daying part well maybe giving the player 1 or 2 soul heart or red heart should be okay but even still bruh is op as hell if you want to do twice as fast achivment just plug random controler get double item and ez the run

[Violeta]

Originally posted by Not Thanatoast:

Originally posted by ⛧White⛧:

My biggest problem is they revive with one hit and only after boss kill. What if you want to go into the devil deal? What if you want to fight the angel statue? What if you want to do boss rush? etc.

Now your friend has waited forever to really play again and they die instantly in the next room.

Its even worse if they only had spirit hearts. Because now they only revive with half a spirit heart.

You died in a roguelite game, the fact that your friend is still allowed to play is being generous. It could be super easy to abuse if they spawned with more than 1 hearts since you could use a blood donation machine, or sacrifice room and then intentionally kill yourself at before beating the boss in order to have more health than before.

Then when they respawn give them a new kind of heart called a void heart that can't be used for anything. And becomes a regular heart at the start of the next floor.

[Slice of Thanatoast]

Originally posted by ⛧White⛧:

Then when they respawn give them a new kind of heart called a void heart that can't be used for anything. And becomes a regular heart at the start of the next floor.

If it just disappears then what is the point? You're back to where you started. The current system works just fine, you just have to be smart about managing your resources.

[Pickupsticks]

It would be nice if P1 P2 P3 P4 with different colours appeared under everyone, very hard to tell who it who and the main reason i don't play on the TV at the moment with friends

[Violeta]

Originally posted by Not Thanatoast:

Originally posted by ⛧White⛧:

Then when they respawn give them a new kind of heart called a void heart that can't be used for anything. And becomes a regular heart at the start of the next floor.

If it just disappears then what is the point? You're back to where you started. The current system works just fine, you just have to be smart about managing your resources.

The point is they have some hp. And on the next floor any they've kept becomes usable hp.

[Slice of Thanatoast]

Originally posted by ⛧White⛧:

The point is they have some hp. And on the next floor any they've kept becomes usable hp.

Now you're just rewarding the player for dying... you have half a heart? Just kill yourself and then next floor you'll have all the health you need.

You do realize that roguelites end your run when the player dies right? Like I said before, the fact that the second player is revived at all is being VERY generous, we don't need to make co-op more of a joke than it is.