Tainted Jacob Needs Reworking

[TheMetaGamer]

I have been having a lot of fun in Repentance, but recently I have been having a miserable time playing as tainted Jacob. So far, I have only been able to beat boss rush and hush thanks to dead cat or holy mantle. It is clear this character is fundamentally flawed and I wish to discuss some possible changes to make a character people can actually play

1. [Esau's charge] While the fact that simply touching him turns Jacob into the Lost is ridiculous, it wouldn't be so bad if I was able to stand still for a brief period of time. However, Esau doesn't allow this. Esau works similarly to mother's shadow, he will get close to you, but won't actually touch you unless going in for a charge. When he does charge is when the problem arises. When mother's shadow charges, she reels backwards and then goes for the hit. When Esau charges, he reels forward into the dash, meaning if you're right next to him standing still, he will take the hit on you. I think simply changing it from a reel forward to a rel back would make a world of difference. Of course, they could also make it so you only take 1 heart of damage.

2. [Esau on death] I do understand that killing Esau would take away the challenge of the run if there was no punishment. However, turning Jacob into the Lost on death is far too great of a punishment as there are many factors out of your control that will kill Esau. On earlier floors, this isn't an issue. On later floors, Esau will find himself taking a lot of damage from environmental or tear effects which will guarantee his death in only a few rooms. If they wanted to make this much more fair, have Jacob lose all of his health except for half a heart or remove the on-death effects and let Esau respawn after 1 minute.

3. [Strategies with Tainted Jacob] Simply put, there is none. Your only hope for completing a run is to find dead cat, gnawed leaf or meat cleaver (and I guess glowing hourglass) or else you're always playing a tainted Lost run without the benefits. The only viable strategy to beating Tainted Jacob is by killing Esau, leaving the room, exiting the game and loading back in to remove him from the floor. This is where I have the biggest problem. The dominant strategy isn't using Esau to your benefit, using cheap tactics or finding god-tier items, it's exploiting the game. I do not want to do this, but if Tainted Jacob isn't updated then I'll either try to play only as Jacob in Lost form or use the exploit.

With all of these fundamental flaws, it makes me wonder if this character had gone through proper play-testing. If a character is created that is harder than tainted Lost, then there is a problem. I will complete every mark on every other character other than tainted Jacob and I hope he is balanced before then.

[Steven of Astora]

I think the idea of this character is pretty interesting. Yeeting Esau around to kill enemies is a lot of fun actually. The main problem is that the whole lost aspect of it really kills the enjoyment. We already have the lost and keeper we really didn't need yet another character where the main difficulty gimmick is "survive with only 1-2 health!". Its especially frustrating that Esau effectively will always die on every single difficult boss in the game. Yes, you can technically keep him alive but its extremely unrealistic.

I think it would have just been much better if they made him simpler. Just have Esau deal damage to the player and remove his ability to die. Sure it removes a ton of the nuance of the character. But that nuance comes with a lot of annoyance and frustration.

[Josedx9]

The only thing they have to do is that if Dark Esau dies, that his explosion does not turn you into The Lost.
They could also give Esau boss armor, this way he will survive longer against bosses.

[Narga95]

Yeah I'm debating whetever to play him now or not before finishing more fun characters like tainted lost and lazarus.
On one hand, playing now it's horrible and not fun in the slightest since I guess the only way to play with him correctly is to use him as dps and just positioning yourself to make him deal damage (but tough luck without flying or good movement speed, expecially in those "you will get hit" rooms). That or just lose time to kill him every floor and treat him as rebirth lost, which doesn't feel right either since he's jacob not the lost.
On the other hand, playing now means you can "cheat" with the strategies you just described, but wouldn't that mean just playing a regular isaac without d6 run? Pretty boring then.

[Evil Morty]

I wish Jacob and Esau was removed from the game, worst character ever made. I hate to play them, its pain pain and nothing else than pain.

[BreakMan]

引用自 Evil Morty：

I wish Jacob and Esau was removed from the game, worst character ever made. I hate to play them, its pain pain and nothing else than pain.

but achievements are gold. now to be serious this character is a definition of speedrun. Every run that I had with him was so quick because yiou are always in move. The only rework that is needed is that you are not turning inot the lsot. that is it thank you

[fromage_enrage]

Just unlocked Tainted Jacob.

Turning into the Lost when killing him is BEYOND retarded. You are literally punished by the game if you get a godly run where you deal tons of dmg and accidentally kill the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

This makes zero sense.