Hot take, Greedier needs a rework before Delirium

[Ume Ito]

The Delirium fight and the Void entirely is all utter bs, but Greedier mode is way more deserving of a rework. All of the unfun, unbalanced, and annoying aspects of Greed mode are cranked up to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 11 on Greedier mode and it's damn near unplayable in its current state. Too many champions, not enough time between waves, the extra wave is just completely uncalled for, and the complete lack of money to buy anything is not good balancing for a hard mode, at least not all at the same time. If I have to sit and constantly restart a run for half an hour straight just to even have an inkling of a chance, assuming I play perfectly and don't take any damage whatsoever and get constant god-tier RNG on all the item rooms and shops, the mode is in need of a rework.

And before any of the "hurr you just gotta git gud" comments roll in, no. Restarting a run a million and a half times is not what Isaac is all about. The whole point of games like these is to work with what you get, not start over until you get something good. Greedier mode completely betrays this notion from the get-go, where-as Delirium is just something you go for if you have a broken run already. As such, I genuinely believe it needs a rework first.

[Box]

And before any of the "hurr you just gotta git gud" comments roll in, no. Restarting a run a million and a half times is not what Isaac is all about. The whole point of games like these is to work with what you get, not start over until you get something good.

You really let the door swing back and hit you in the face with this one, huh.

Yes. Playing with what you can get is how Isaac works. If you only win when you restart a load of times... you need to get good

Greedier just needs to fix the enemy spawning and it'll be fine. It's easy to break and not that hard to survive. Pretty samey after a while, though.

[MERT]

Yeah. Greedier needs rework too.

[T1N1->Casper_Ksta]

Originally posted by Seductive Cardboard Box:

And before any of the "hurr you just gotta git gud" comments roll in, no. Restarting a run a million and a half times is not what Isaac is all about. The whole point of games like these is to work with what you get, not start over until you get something good.

You really let the door swing back and hit you in the face with this one, huh.

Yes. Playing with what you can get is how Isaac works. If you only win when you restart a load of times... you need to get good :papyrus:

Greedier just needs to fix the enemy spawning and it'll be fine. It's easy to break and not that hard to survive. Pretty samey after a while, though.

I had a high streak on Isaac once so I can say I can play with what I get, I'm definitively good enough.
It's just that in Isaac the player starts underpowered and if he gets meh items, it's just not fun, I don't care about "urr durr git gud" in this oe game, I played many bullet hells before and I can tell you, these games are fun because of their difficulty, and I can also tell you that Isaac is fun WITHOUT it's difficulty, I mean, I like hard bosses, but playing the "hit the bullet sponge" game is just boring. Isaac is not supposed to be an hardcore game, JUST LOOK AT EDMUND'S OTHER GAMES, SUPER MEAT BOY FOREVER IS A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MOBILE GAME, BUMBO TOO. Isaac is a chill and break stuff game, I actually defend the difficulty changes but I hate underpowered starts.

[Saffron]

Originally posted by CryoSpider:

Originally posted by Seductive Cardboard Box:

You really let the door swing back and hit you in the face with this one, huh.

Yes. Playing with what you can get is how Isaac works. If you only win when you restart a load of times... you need to get good :papyrus:

Greedier just needs to fix the enemy spawning and it'll be fine. It's easy to break and not that hard to survive. Pretty samey after a while, though.

I had a high streak on Isaac once so I can say I can play with what I get, I'm definitively good enough.
It's just that in Isaac the player starts underpowered and if he gets meh items, it's just not fun, I don't care about "urr durr git gud" in this oe game, I played many bullet hells before and I can tell you, these games are fun because of their difficulty, and I can also tell you that Isaac is fun WITHOUT it's difficulty, I mean, I like hard bosses, but playing the "hit the bullet sponge" game is just boring. Isaac is not supposed to be an hardcore game, JUST LOOK AT EDMUND'S OTHER GAMES, SUPER MEAT BOY FOREVER IS A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MOBILE GAME, BUMBO TOO. Isaac is a chill and break stuff game, I actually defend the difficulty changes but I hate underpowered starts.

Worth noting that Edmund McMillen didn't actually work on Super Meat Boy Forever -- he quit Team Meat a few years ago.

But yeah Greedier Mode just isn't fun, too much BS involved. It's either brutally difficult towards the start and the end or way too samey in every other part. It takes the gimmicky gameplay of Greed Mode, which is normally pretty fun, and makes it harder than regular Isaac hard mode. Regular hard mode is a lot more optimized mechanically compared to Greed imo, so it feels a lot worse in Greedier.

[Souren]

I've beated it with all characters I've tried without restarting to get something good idk. I do think they should improve the money a bit or reduce the campions but I wouldn't say it needs a rework. Void and Delirium DO.

[T1N1->Casper_Ksta]

Originally posted by Honest John:

Originally posted by CryoSpider:

I had a high streak on Isaac once so I can say I can play with what I get, I'm definitively good enough.
It's just that in Isaac the player starts underpowered and if he gets meh items, it's just not fun, I don't care about "urr durr git gud" in this oe game, I played many bullet hells before and I can tell you, these games are fun because of their difficulty, and I can also tell you that Isaac is fun WITHOUT it's difficulty, I mean, I like hard bosses, but playing the "hit the bullet sponge" game is just boring. Isaac is not supposed to be an hardcore game, JUST LOOK AT EDMUND'S OTHER GAMES, SUPER MEAT BOY FOREVER IS A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MOBILE GAME, BUMBO TOO. Isaac is a chill and break stuff game, I actually defend the difficulty changes but I hate underpowered starts.

Worth noting that Edmund McMillen didn't actually work on Super Meat Boy Forever -- he quit Team Meat a few years ago.

But yeah Greedier Mode just isn't fun, too much BS involved. It's either brutally difficult towards the start and the end or way too samey in every other part. It takes the gimmicky gameplay of Greed Mode, which is normally pretty fun, and makes it harder than regular Isaac hard mode. Regular hard mode is a lot more optimized mechanically compared to Greed imo, so it feels a lot worse in Greedier.

I actually didn't know that, I think I saw Edmund advertising it, thanks for the trivia! Bumbo is still Edmund's tho.

[Simoko]

just use D20 bro

[Junior]

Champions should have a chance to drop items and wave times should be left the same

[SoldierDelta]

Originally posted by Simoko:

just use D20 bro

Not as easy, nor as recommended as before.
It doesn't reroll opened chests, so it's far from as easy to do, and isn't even possible to do with Bethany.

[Box]

Originally posted by SoldierDelta:

Originally posted by Simoko:

just use D20 bro

Not as easy, nor as recommended as before.
It doesn't reroll opened chests, so it's far from as easy to do, and isn't even possible to do with Bethany.

It's still pretty trivial to do, just need to survive one floor if you want to d20 into an item bonanza. There's even a d infinity to give you twice as many d20s to nab. If you're feeling too impatient to open chests you can d1 a diamonds card too. Lots of options.

And Bethany doesn't need the help, she's just fine with her broken combos as is.

[Rubyeyed]

It won't happen. If they planned anything it would have been released along Repentance. + people have been complaining about it for a while so the feedback is either ignored or Ed thinks it's perfect as it is.

And yes, it's not the best. Either get a damage starter or get flooded with enemies. Sure you have a chance to get ez spawns and make it without dmg but it just does not happen that often.