Curses need a rework

[Dutty Breakdown]

Isaac veteran here, I have over 1000 hours played & the platinum trophys for both Afterbirth & afterbirth+. I love the game & i cant wait for repentance to come to console. However, in my time playing Isaac I've come to realise that curses are just bad in terms of game design. They dont feel like they add any kind of challenge to a run at best, and can single handedly kill your run in the cheapest way possible at worst.
Curse of Darkness, for me, is cancer. It gives me eye strain & I dont want to tweak my game settings because why should I? it sometimes makes my game completely unplayable too.
Curse of the Lost is just annoying & pads unnecessary time to your runs, adds 0 challenge just increases run time
Curse of the unknown basically either does nothing or kills your run, depending on if you were paying attention (getting this 2 floors in a row is cancer tho)
Curse of the blind is stupid & anti-fun. I'm going to take the item no matter what, thats just how I play & if it gives me soy milk or something run-killing then I just feel cheated.
Curse of the labyrinth is annoying. 1 less shop & devil room sucks.
Curse of the maze is just annoying & pointless.
They are all annoying, add 0 real challenge. The times you get screwed over by them feel cheap & theyre overall just bad game design
I'd much rather have something that added a real challenge than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ pointless curse that just padded out the length of my run by making me take forever to find a boss room
TL;DR Curses suck, rework them into fun gameplay

[WitchAmy]

What would you suggest in your "rework" then

[Dutty Breakdown]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

What would you suggest in your "rework" then :dip:

Hmm, honestly something that actually added a real gameplay challenge maybe? All enemies on the floor become champion enemies.. or enemies have a chance to be sped up in a room (similar to broken stopwatch)
These ideas might not be that great (I dont really have any ideas for the reworks) but thats the kind of stuff I'd prefer. Something to test your skill & make the run more difficult from a gameplay perspective, not just something that kills your run because it makes you accidentaly pick up Soy Milk

[WitchAmy]

Originally posted by Dutty Breakdown:

not just something that kills your run because it makes you accidentaly pick up Soy Milk

Hey! Soy is actually very good in Repentance!

[BuzzDee]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

Originally posted by Dutty Breakdown:

not just something that kills your run because it makes you accidentaly pick up Soy Milk

Hey! Soy is actually very good in Repentance!

rock bottom and soy milk or almond milk damn that rules

[WitchAmy]

I just remembered that in the past, I made concepts of some FourSouls-based curses and how they would work in tboi. Maybe this is what OP was looking for...


Curse of Bloodlust
For the reminder of the floor, player's health slowly drains, in a similar way to how Tainted Maggy's gimmick works, with the only difference being the curse drains all hearts. Killing enemies will stop the draining effect for a short period, forcing the player to quickly move through rooms and not staying too long on the floor. The curse's effect will stop after killing the boss of the floor. The curse's effect cannot kill the player but can drain all red hearts if he has soul or black hearts too. It will also prioritize red health before any other.

Curse of Fatigue
Player's active items will not gain charges through clearing rooms. Active items in the consumable slot are not affected.
Spawns 2-4 batteries at the start of the floor.

Curse of Greed
Any source of damage, except self-harming effects, cause the player to drop money, in a similar fashion to how Greed-like enemies work.

Curse of Impulse
Consumables are instantly consumed upon pickup. Makes Suicide King unable to spawn from any source for the reminder of the floor. Consumables that are already in player's inventory, when entering the floor with this curse are not affected. Active items in the consumable slot are also not affected.

Curse of Loss
Taking damage first time in a room causes Isaac's soul to exit his body, essentially turning him into the Lost. If the player takes damage as the soul, he will die. After exiting the room, the soul will return to the body. Basically the gimmick of Tainted Jacob but it activates when you take damage from anything, not only Dark Esau

Curse of Pain
All non-special doors have a 10% chance to become Curse Room doors. Doors leading to red rooms are unaffected.
Secret Room entrances close after leaving the room (like in flash Isaac).

Curse of Tiny Hands
Disables the effect of Schoolbag, Mom's Purse, Belly Button, Polydactyly, Little Baggy and Starter Deck. Extra actives, trinkets or consumables that no longer can be held because of this are dropped on the ground. Collecting coins, keys or bombs while having 50 of them will not increase their amounts. If the player has more than 50 when entering the floor with this curse, the excess resources will not be removed but the effect is still active. If the player has Deep Pockets, the limit for coins is increased to 500.

[Lucifer ★✬]

i love Curse of the labyrinth, even more so if its the first level. 2 free items is always good

[Menez]

Curse of distraction

Consumables dropped by enemies and clearing a room diasppear after a short time.
Does not apply to blood donation machines, slots, card effects etc.

Curse of the weakling

Greatly increases the chance of enemies being champions

Curse of the champion

The boss is a Double Trouble

[Menez]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

I just remembered that in the past, I made concepts of some FourSouls-based curses and how they would work in tboi. Maybe this is what OP was looking for...


Curse of Bloodlust
For the reminder of the floor, player's health slowly drains, in a similar way to how Tainted Maggy's gimmick works, with the only difference being the curse drains all hearts. Killing enemies will stop the draining effect for a short period, forcing the player to quickly move through rooms and not staying too long on the floor. The curse's effect will stop after killing the boss of the floor. The curse's effect cannot kill the player but can drain all red hearts if he has soul or black hearts too. It will also prioritize red health before any other.

Curse of Fatigue
Player's active items will not gain charges through clearing rooms. Active items in the consumable slot are not affected.

Curse of Greed
Any source of damage, except self-harming effects, cause the player to drop money, in a similar fashion to how Greed-like enemies work.

Curse of Impulse
Consumables are instantly consumed upon pickup. Makes Suicide King unable to spawn from any source for the reminder of the floor. Consumables that are already in player's inventory, when entering the floor with this curse are not affected. Active items in the consumable slot are also not affected.

Curse of Loss
Taking damage first time in a room causes Isaac's soul to exit his body, essentially turning him into the Lost. If the player takes damage as the soul, he will die. After exiting the room, the soul will return to the body. Basically the gimmick of Tainted Jacob but it activates when you take damage from anything, not only Dark Esau

Curse of Pain
All non-special doors have a 25% chance to become Curse Room doors. Doors leading to red rooms are unaffected.

Curse of Tiny Hands
Disables the effect of Schoolbag, Mom's Purse, Belly Button, Polydactyly, Little Baggy and Starter Deck. Extra actives, trinkets or consumables that no longer can be held because of this are dropped on the ground. Collecting coins, keys or bombs while having 50 of them will not increase their amounts. If the player has more than 50 when entering the floor with this curse, the excess resources will not be removed but the effect is still active. If the player has Deep Pockets, the limit for coins is increased to 500.

Those sounds extremely painful.
Curse of pain and tiny hands are a little unfair.
Fatigue can be interesting, but it should at least increase the chance of batteries. Or give you 3 normal batteries at the start of the floor

[WitchAmy]

Originally posted by Menez:

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

I just remembered that in the past, I made concepts of some FourSouls-based curses and how they would work in tboi. Maybe this is what OP was looking for...


Curse of Bloodlust
For the reminder of the floor, player's health slowly drains, in a similar way to how Tainted Maggy's gimmick works, with the only difference being the curse drains all hearts. Killing enemies will stop the draining effect for a short period, forcing the player to quickly move through rooms and not staying too long on the floor. The curse's effect will stop after killing the boss of the floor. The curse's effect cannot kill the player but can drain all red hearts if he has soul or black hearts too. It will also prioritize red health before any other.

Curse of Fatigue
Player's active items will not gain charges through clearing rooms. Active items in the consumable slot are not affected.

Curse of Greed
Any source of damage, except self-harming effects, cause the player to drop money, in a similar fashion to how Greed-like enemies work.

Curse of Impulse
Consumables are instantly consumed upon pickup. Makes Suicide King unable to spawn from any source for the reminder of the floor. Consumables that are already in player's inventory, when entering the floor with this curse are not affected. Active items in the consumable slot are also not affected.

Curse of Loss
Taking damage first time in a room causes Isaac's soul to exit his body, essentially turning him into the Lost. If the player takes damage as the soul, he will die. After exiting the room, the soul will return to the body. Basically the gimmick of Tainted Jacob but it activates when you take damage from anything, not only Dark Esau

Curse of Pain
All non-special doors have a 25% chance to become Curse Room doors. Doors leading to red rooms are unaffected.

Curse of Tiny Hands
Disables the effect of Schoolbag, Mom's Purse, Belly Button, Polydactyly, Little Baggy and Starter Deck. Extra actives, trinkets or consumables that no longer can be held because of this are dropped on the ground. Collecting coins, keys or bombs while having 50 of them will not increase their amounts. If the player has more than 50 when entering the floor with this curse, the excess resources will not be removed but the effect is still active. If the player has Deep Pockets, the limit for coins is increased to 500.

Those sounds extremely painful.
Curse of pain and tiny hands are a little unfair.
Fatigue can be interesting, but it should at least increase the chance of batteries. Or give you 3 normal batteries at the start of the floor

Well, they're supposed to be a challenge afterall. I might tweak some of them though.

[DemonZan]

I feel like the big problem with curses is that they don't follow risk/reward like the rest of the game does. It just feels like someone's putting their hand over part of your screen. If curses are to be fun there should be something positive to go with them. For example,
curse of the horde: double enemies spawn but all pickups are doubled
Maybe for curse of the lost all doors are open
Im not sure how the others could be balanced anyone else have any ideas.

[weiss]

ehm o-o why, am totally fine with all curses o-o the onlyone which i hate is curse of the lost.

did the OP knows (i think he does cause veteran) that, the more often you beat the main bosses the more often a curse appears? i mean ... some peoples complain about OMG curse on every floor. yea .. obsiviously cause you finished runs in the past tons of times ._.

i mean i have that info from the wiki x.x
https://bindingofisaacrebirth.fandom.com/wiki/Curses
if anything should they rework how curses appear now or when they appear and not based on how often you beaten the main bosses. its no wonder that peoples which play this game for 500hours and longer getting nearly every floor a curse.

so again, they should change how and when a curse triggers. keeping it based on how often you killed the bosses is not longer a good way ^^.

[717]

i think game would be much more fun without curses at all, this idea sucks and doesnt work why keep it in the game? curses are stupid and cheap, i always play with 150 gamma too because of curse of darkness but im too lazy to tweak it every time so i just left it at 150

[Rem Lezar]

Originally posted by DemonZan:

I feel like the big problem with curses is that they don't follow risk/reward like the rest of the game does. It just feels like someone's putting their hand over part of your screen. If curses are to be fun there should be something positive to go with them. For example,
curse of the horde: double enemies spawn but all pickups are doubled
Maybe for curse of the lost all doors are open
Im not sure how the others could be balanced anyone else have any ideas.

Curse of the lost really is just edmund putting his hand in front of your map. So annoying.

[Jevmen]

I think the curses work just fine except of curse of the blind, the lost and the unknown.

Curse of the blind is just unfair, in a game with garbage items that can ruin your run and no option to drop it i dont want to feel like im playing the russian roulete every item i pick up.
They could change it so you see a very distorted and dark version of the item, considering how many items look similar still challenging but definetly not unfair, and rewards memory

Curse of the blind should tell you just the room you are in and the exits, just that, no rooms are saved but you can see how many exits the room have, and some general position about the room location, im so tired to be lost because a 2x2 room had a exit i never saw.

Curse of the unknown should give you the chance to see your HP just for 5 seconds and it starts dissapearing slowly until is invisible, im to tired to see curse of the unknow and i dont remember how many HP i had from the previous floor, just give me a few seconds to memorize my HP before it dissapears, also add a way to know when you took 1/2 or 1 heart damage, it makes calculating HP harder, just change the sound of isaac in the game making the sound a bit diferent when you take full heart damage, for example, in hollow knight for not forcing the player into looking constantly to the HP if you took a hit that deals twice the damage the screen shake is a bit higher, the sound is diferent and the particle effects are diferent, just give feedback to the player if isaac took full heart damage before womb.

[Jevmen]

Originally posted by Blind, the Bound Demon:

I just remembered that in the past, I made concepts of some FourSouls-based curses and how they would work in tboi. Maybe this is what OP was looking for...


Curse of Bloodlust
For the reminder of the floor, player's health slowly drains, in a similar way to how Tainted Maggy's gimmick works, with the only difference being the curse drains all hearts. Killing enemies will stop the draining effect for a short period, forcing the player to quickly move through rooms and not staying too long on the floor. The curse's effect will stop after killing the boss of the floor. The curse's effect cannot kill the player but can drain all red hearts if he has soul or black hearts too. It will also prioritize red health before any other.

Curse of Fatigue
Player's active items will not gain charges through clearing rooms. Active items in the consumable slot are not affected.
Spawns 2-4 batteries at the start of the floor.

Curse of Greed
Any source of damage, except self-harming effects, cause the player to drop money, in a similar fashion to how Greed-like enemies work.

Curse of Impulse
Consumables are instantly consumed upon pickup. Makes Suicide King unable to spawn from any source for the reminder of the floor. Consumables that are already in player's inventory, when entering the floor with this curse are not affected. Active items in the consumable slot are also not affected.

Curse of Loss
Taking damage first time in a room causes Isaac's soul to exit his body, essentially turning him into the Lost. If the player takes damage as the soul, he will die. After exiting the room, the soul will return to the body. Basically the gimmick of Tainted Jacob but it activates when you take damage from anything, not only Dark Esau

Curse of Pain
All non-special doors have a 10% chance to become Curse Room doors. Doors leading to red rooms are unaffected.
Secret Room entrances close after leaving the room (like in flash Isaac).

Curse of Tiny Hands
Disables the effect of Schoolbag, Mom's Purse, Belly Button, Polydactyly, Little Baggy and Starter Deck. Extra actives, trinkets or consumables that no longer can be held because of this are dropped on the ground. Collecting coins, keys or bombs while having 50 of them will not increase their amounts. If the player has more than 50 when entering the floor with this curse, the excess resources will not be removed but the effect is still active. If the player has Deep Pockets, the limit for coins is increased to 500.

All of this look enjoyable.
Except the tiny hands one, imagine loosing your satanic bible in the floor because the curse