So, for everyone thinking the game is too hard and unfair now...

[artzpiip]

...how, in your opinion, would you make the game more fair without ruining the challenge?

[11clock]

I think the issue is that a lot of players do not play Isaac for the challenge, but rather for finding all the ways you can break the game. In other words, this question self contradicts. To them, the problem is the added challenge and not being able to easily break the game anymore.

Personally I have always found the overpowered game breaking runs to be the less interesting ones. I mean sure, finding an OP synergy is exciting at first, but it causes the rest of the run to be incredibly boring due to going on autopilot. The more exciting runs for me were ones that were incredibly close calls. I remember that one run when I defeated the Isaac boss and died at the same time, causing the fight to be a draw. I got the completion stamp for beating Isaac, but the game counted the run itself as a loss because I died. That was very memorable to me, unlike the 5 million runs where I got Brimstone and melted everything.

So I am in favor of the items being more balanced overall. Game breaking runs are boring. Being able to somehow win what was supposed to be a doomed run feels great.

[Cosmo]

it really is very hard now, i been playing isaac for years and i only beaten the game once, and the new boss "mother" is really hard to kill, you have to be really OP to kill her.

[The Renderer]

Thankfully Ed usually doesn't listen too much to complaints, so he and his team hopefully will take the edge off of some of the worse und unfun things (which do exist, no doubt), but still keep it challenging.

[Pestilancer]

The main issue with the balance IMO is the increase to shot speed for a lot of enemies. It makes dealing with enemies on basement 1 way harder than it has any right to be. Everything else seems pretty good so either reverting that change or making it slightly less significant would be fantastic.

[TheJollyJam]

Originally posted by 11clock:

I think the issue is that a lot of players do not play Isaac for the challenge, but rather for finding all the ways you can break the game. In other words, this question self contradicts. To them, the problem is the added challenge and not being able to easily break the game anymore.

Personally I have always found the overpowered game breaking runs to be the less interesting ones. I mean sure, finding an OP synergy is exciting at first, but it causes the rest of the run to be incredibly boring due to going on autopilot. The more exciting runs for me were ones that were incredibly close calls. I remember that one run when I defeated the Isaac boss and died at the same time, causing the fight to be a draw. I got the completion stamp for beating Isaac, but the game counted the run itself as a loss because I died. That was very memorable to me, unlike the 5 million runs where I got Brimstone and melted everything.

So I am in favor of the items being more balanced overall. Game breaking runs are boring. Being able to somehow win what was supposed to be a doomed run feels great.

This. I only learnt about infinite money, item etc. breaks through watching Sinvicta. It was fun to try it a few times, but it became more stressful and annoying when an opportunity to break presented itself and I either choose to ignore it (because I didn't want to waste time) or mess up the process half way through (usually because I got my Q and spacebar keys mixed up). Now I don't have to even consider such things, or only do a shop break when the stars align (i.e get blank card, two diamonds and restock).

[Sad Pug]

Fixing holy mantle, because as it is now, it's almost completely useless.
And bring back duration of brimstone, because now not only they lowered damage, but also how long it lasts.
Also shops, but this fix is coming, thankfully.

[DataMemoryStick]

Originally posted by Pestilancer:

The main issue with the balance IMO is the increase to shot speed for a lot of enemies. It makes dealing with enemies on basement 1 way harder than it has any right to be. Everything else seems pretty good so either reverting that change or making it slightly less significant would be fantastic.

The game had the same shot speed on a couple of enemies for the past 7 years.
I mean how's that now a balance issue?
More like "new stuff i don't have experience and getting destroyed".

I ve been playing the game from release date and had 100% for the past 2 years now.
I am totally getting destroyed aswell no doubt, as its different, but it just feels great cause there are so much new stuff.

I guess the dlc is mainly for returning players which already beaten the game.
People that were already struggling and haven't been even 50% of the game will totally get so much pain now, but its normal.

That's what is happening right now and people are "dissapointed".

I didn't want to say this but people need to gitgud and deal with this (including me)

Depths, Utero, Womb, Caves, feel like a walk in the park.

[DataMemoryStick]

Originally posted by Sad Pug:

Fixing holy mantle, because as it is now, it's almost completely useless.
And bring back duration of brimstone, because now not only they lowered damage, but also how long it lasts.
Also shops, but this fix is coming, thankfully.

Brimstone nerf is cruel indeed

[Bluddy]

We need an easy mode for those people who are used to the OP-fest Isaac was up to now. There's no escaping it -- the balance in BOI was so off, it attracted people who don't play the game for the game itself but for breaking it, essentially as a screensaver.

[shiftcore]

i'd make it how it was before the update lol. but keep the keeper balance cuz that change was a good one.
don't think bullets should be going twice as fast in hard mode.
also they have clearly given some enemies way too much health. and nerfed some of the best op items in the game.
thats how i'd change it lol

[COOLSKELETON95]

Originally posted by Pestilancer:

The main issue with the balance IMO is the increase to shot speed for a lot of enemies. It makes dealing with enemies on basement 1 way harder than it has any right to be. Everything else seems pretty good so either reverting that change or making it slightly less significant would be fantastic.

don't play on hard mode if you don't want the game to be hard lol

[FrozenStar]

Just relearn the meta and it will be okay. I still did not touch the normal mode since there's no point in playing it before unlocking everything in hard mode.

[Flashback007]

I have changed of opinion several times now during the last few days. At the beginning I really thought the game was unfair and incredibly hard. Now seeing after what the endgame is (not through my own efforts) I understand that change. Some of the changes to certain items, might rub people the wrong way, but could be very interesting (Satanic Bible for example), but others are just making items useless (Maw of the Void for example). I think there can be a fine balance between changing items and giving them new function with out breaking them.

I also agree with some people that some of the shot speed and overall speed of the enemies is kinda weird right now. I understand upping the difficulty, but I got my ass handed to me by Little Horn one run. And sometimes time for recovery is so small that enemies can easily gang up on you without you having any chance of beating them. I want to note though, that this does happen rarely and isn't an overall huge issue, it's just annoying.

[COOLSKELETON95]

Originally posted by shiftcore:

i'd make it how it was before the update lol.

to me the game is way more fun now than it was before the update so hard pass on this.
just wait a couple weeks for workshop support to come back and then you can download all the "guaranteed starting items" mods in the world and hold the arrow keys to make cool stuff happen to your heart's content

[zverozvero]

I'd throw in more crippling challenges or eden-like character (for streaking with bit randomisition) with negative multipliers, bisaac like limitation on maximum items and mutilated item pool decimated specifically for him. Perhaps tie it to leaderboard, or ideally optional difficulty (well, current one why not - if there are people who love it) specially for contestants on this leaderboard. Infinite possibilities to measure one anothers runs by clear speed and loot perils.

And have main game loop as it was with its sparcly moments and insane breaks. Had home-run just today on this balanced difficulty... it could be called demolishing and broken in a sense as it didnt require exquisite performance to execute. Extra health, pierce splash stunlock. Still it was sluggish and limping like it starved for months and does me last dying favour with dead weight on both legs.