Question about Victory Laps

[emeraldaly]

Just got AB+ recently. Got an absolutely sick seed for an Apollyon run and cleared the Dark Room with no trouble. Went to a first, a second, a third Victory Lap, no problems. Died twice on the third Lap as the Lost, but I picked up Dead Cat at least twice (and I thought three times) along with other respawn items so it kept going.

On the fourth lap, I died four more times and the run then ended (and went in the books as a loss, LOL). But I'm certain I picked up Dead Cat at least twice, so why did 6 deaths (maybe it was 5 or 7, but it certainly wasn't 9) end my run?

I also noticed that I lost my Void somewhere during the fourth run (didn't even notice where, the build was so ridiculous I was killing ♥♥♥♥ before I was even aware of it), and the Death's Touch that I picked up in the first Devil Deal back in the original run. How did these happen?

The mechanic is super fun, I look forward to doing it some more.

[Deuphoria]

After the 3rd or 4th lap you lose some of your items and they get thrown back into the item pool. This makes it so you're not too super op just mindlessly running through an endless spam of laps. Can't remember which lap exactly you start losing items, but every lap after it some of your items will be returned to their respective item pools.

[emeraldaly]

K sorta figured that, but what about Dead Cat? I picked up Dead Cat twice, also had 1-up, Broken Ankh, Guppy's Collar, and Judas's Shadow. I'm positive the run ended after less than 9 deaths as the Lost.

[kone]

Dead cat counts as 9 individual items, each being one extra life, and can be lost through looping the game. For some reason the extra lives dont appear on the hud, so it's hard to determine how many lives you've got left.

I might be wrong, maybe the game treats dead cat differently? but that's what I think makes sense

[Deuphoria]

I don't know the exact mechanics behind it, but it most likely took away dead cat, and along with it your extra lives.

[UwU]

Originally posted by Kitten Exterminator:

Dead cat counts as 9 individual items, each being one extra life, and can be lost through looping the game. For some reason the extra lives dont appear on the hud, so it's hard to determine how many lives you've got left.

I might be wrong, maybe the game treats dead cat differently? but that's what I think makes sense

No. It counts as 1 item.

OP, all or most of the hp up items were just removed. That's it.

[emeraldaly]

Well I easily had 12 black hearts throughout the Apollyon portion of the run (Void absorbed, among a bunch of other stuff, Satanic Bible). I did pick up a few HP-up items but Void also absorbed Potato Peeler, so those red heart containers didn't last long. Would removing them make a difference at that point?

[emeraldaly]

If the Dead Cat(s) got taken away, why did I get 6 or 7 respawns and not none? I never respawned as Judas or Blue Baby and I'm pretty sure I never heard the sound effect for 1-up activating either.

[UwU]

I mean "1 up" items, not health upgrades. Sorry.
Of course The Lost always have 0 hearts.

[emeraldaly]

Hunh. So maybe they were just all for Guppy's Collar then? Weird -- and statistically pretty unlikely -- but I guess it's the best explanation there is.

[UwU]

Originally posted by emeraldaly:

If the Dead Cat(s) got taken away, why did I get 6 or 7 respawns and not none? I never respawned as Judas or Blue Baby and I'm pretty sure I never heard the sound effect for 1-up activating either.

Ok. I can be wrong here, but there's 2 possible things.
1. At this point you can respawn only with Lost, so all items gives you just respawn without changing character.
2. 2 dead cats = 18ups. Removing 1 dead cat = 9ups (or less if you already died at this point).

[UwU]

Originally posted by emeraldaly:

Hunh. So maybe they were just all for Guppy's Collar then? Weird -- and statistically pretty unlikely -- but I guess it's the best explanation there is.

Oh yeah. Collar can give you a lot of respawns too. 50% which can activate 9999+ times or only 1. It's like flipping a coin

[emeraldaly]

Right, but getting the coin to land heads six times in a row is like 1%. Which is more than 0, so I'm satisfied with that answer.

[kone]

Originally posted by Two Time Champion:

Originally posted by Kitten Exterminator:

Dead cat counts as 9 individual items, each being one extra life, and can be lost through looping the game. For some reason the extra lives dont appear on the hud, so it's hard to determine how many lives you've got left.

I might be wrong, maybe the game treats dead cat differently? but that's what I think makes sense

No. It counts as 1 item.

OP, all or most of the hp up items were just removed. That's it.

Dead cat is statistically worth 9 items when we see it in for example in score. It is worth 9 times as much as one item considering item penalty. In daily runs, I tend to avoid it because I know it does exactly that and I've seen it first hand that it costs me score.

So I'm still unsure whether victory laps individually remove dead cat's extra lives because it shouldn't, but makes sense if it does. Too bad we can't see it doing that because the lives don't show up in the HUD.

[UwU]

Originally posted by emeraldaly:

Right, but getting the coin to land heads six times in a row is like 1%. Which is more than 0, so I'm satisfied with that answer.

I recommend you some things.
1. Use Isaac with d6. With him you can reroll and collect a lot of OP items and if even some of them disappear later, you still can beat a run. Also take every ok/♥♥♥♥ item, then you have more chances that they're gonna be removed and not one that you need.
2. At one point, take angel room path (atleast try it). Holy mantle with the lost very OP.
3. Gamebreak in victory lap with d6 very easy to make. Then you're just can kill anything in 1 second.

[UwU]

Originally posted by Kitten Exterminator:

Originally posted by Two Time Champion:

No. It counts as 1 item.

OP, all or most of the hp up items were just removed. That's it.

Dead cat is statistically worth 9 items when we see it in for example in score. It is worth 9 times as much as one item considering item penalty. In daily runs, I tend to avoid it because I know it does exactly that and I've seen it first hand that it costs me score.

So I'm still unsure whether victory laps individually remove dead cat's extra lives because it shouldn't, but makes sense if it does. Too bad we can't see it doing that because the lives don't show up in the HUD.

Statistically, but it's still 1 item) It just works different way. When other 1ups disappear after death and don't have any visual effect, dead cat creates countdown of lifes and also have a cat head following you (well mushroom follows you too, but still that's only 1 extra life), so after each death it recreates in the same item but in different code with less lifes) that's maybe why it count's so weird in daily runs (but maybe it's just count every extra life). Still, 1 item. I'm not even sure if you take more than 1 dead cat, that only 9 lifes disappear and not all of them. Too lazy to test it, even that it's easy with console =P