Tweak Boss Rush & Blue Womb Idea

[Oliarco]

Disclaimer: It's not my intention to change the game or except it to be changed because "i knows best" or ♥♥♥♥ of this kind. This is just an idea for something like a mod or even nothing, just for talking. Don't feel yourselves attacked if you like current boss rush and/or blue womb, the purpose of this thread is just talking about an hypothetical change.



In the end, the boss rush and hush timers are not fun at all when you want just play the game without speedrunning it. And i never liked the "go till the end of this ♥♥♥♥" attitude.

So my idea for tweak the system for who don't like speedrunning maintaining it balanced, pretending it was balanced before :)
it's the following:

-The entrance for Boss Rush will spawn at The Deths 2 boss room if the player entered at least 3 devil/angel rooms without having accepted any deal with the devil.

-The entrance for Blue Womb will spawn at The Womb 2 boss room if the player entered at least 5 devil/angel rooms without having accepted any deal with the devil.

So the player will need to decide if the B.R. is worth it over accepting deals with the devil. Angel rooms are "free" and won't invalidate the B.R and/or B.W.

The idea behind this change is that the player is not supposed to have B.R. guaranted but if the right conditions met:
1) bad devil deals,
2) player not willing to trade red health because is low,
3) no devil deals at all hence red chest.

Then the player will be rewarded for no taking red hearts damage.
The total rooms between basament 1 (that can't spawn a devil except with joker) and the detphs 2 (without counting the depths 2) is 4 devil rooms:
-basement 2
-caves 1
-caves 2
-depths 1

Instead the total number between basement 1 and the womb 2 (without counting the the womb 2) is 6 devil rooms.
-basement 2
-caves 1
-caves 2
-depths 1
-depths 2
-womb 2

However maybe the criteria are a bit too restrictive.
If with these settings is not worth, the game could check the number of boss rooms with devil doors spawned at least once in T.D.2 and T.W.2 and if equal or above 3/5 then spawn the B.R./B.W. (so no exploit if you leave and go back with previous boss rooms). This way the game would count even the depths 2 and the womb 2 devil rooms toward the total and would be easier to achieve the goal.


Tell me your opinions about this hypothetical change, i'm pretty curious and open-minded about it :)

[Vapor]

It'd certainly make the decision making matter more.

[BaaLamba]

My opinion on it, is that the reward for doing the BR or hush needs to be significantly improved for this to be worth it. I'd never want to skip on that many devil deals for the potential to get a single item from BR, and the things I get from hush are often underwhelming considering I already need to be strong to even consider fighting hush.
Otherwise, Could be an interesting addition, I already like the feeling of having to give up devil deals for angel rooms, and would definitely be a benefit to players who go more heavily for angel rooms like me.

[Oliarco]

I have to agree about the boss rush reward being not so great and reject devil deals, assuming them didn't suck, is definitely painful but if the deals are just bad (or red chest) this could be considered as an option for "save" the player from low luck with devil rooms.

Said that. The reward of the boss rush is anyway probably low compared with the effort to achieve it so it could becames one of these 2 options:

OPTION 1:
The B.R. requires that the player entered at least 2 Devil/Angel rooms on different floors without accepting devil deals for spawn. The check for spawn the B.R. happen when the boss of the depths 2 is defeated and when the player leave and enter again the empty boss room (this way the player can potentially use the devil room of the depths 2 too).

OPTION 2:
The B.R. requires that the player entered at least 3 Devil/Angel rooms on different floors without accepting devil deals for spawn. The check for spawn the B.R. happen when the boss of the depths 2 is defeated and when the player leave and enter again the empty boss room (this way the player can potentially use the devil room of the depths 2 too).
The B.R. will let the player choose 2 items instead of just 1 before the start of the bosses spawn.

The 1st option makes the goal easier while the 2nd makes the reward better. Speaking about me i preffer the 2nd option because even if the 1st option requires less devil rooms, skip devil deals is anyway costly (although it'll be just good in case of bad devil deals).


About the Blue Womb. Since the hush is far from being an easy opponent, the reward could be reworked this way:

1) The 4 golden chest work like the ones found in "the chest" providing a guaranted item

2) The Hush on death will drop 1 item from the angel pool (it also makes sense since you need to skip devil deals for challenge him hence angel rooms)

The devil/angel room requiered for makes spawn the blue womb will be anyway 5 independently from the option used for the Boss Rush because it's not not heavily tied with it.

Maybe with these changes the reward could be too high but in my opinion the downsides are enough to justify it:

1) The player needed to enter at least 5 Devil/Angel Rooms without made deals with the devil

2) The player need to fight Hush and win for keep these rewards

These are my reworked ideas about the change, feel free to comment about it :)