What's the point of Lilith?

[Viking Mana]

I genuinely don't understand.

She's a character that starts off relatively weak. Her gimmick is that she has no accuracy, using a familiar to shoot, and that none of the fun items work. My first attempt with her was a regular Greed Mode run. I got Lead Pencil in my shop. Turns out it does nothing. It colors every other tear red, and that's it. No added damage. No Monstro's Lung effect.

Then I tried doing a Hard Mode run - My second item room gave me an Evil Eye. "Neat" I thought. Then it of course turns out that it has literally no effect. The item doesn't apply to Incubus, thus it does literally nothing for Lilith.

It was a bad design decision to leave health-ups in The Lost's item pool. Why repeat that mistake by leaving in a ton of cool items that does nothing for Lilith? Why even bother adding a character that's just a really tedious and boring version of every other character?

It's just not fun. At all. And it's not even a troll. it's just broken mechanics. Lots and lots of broken mechanics. I really just don't understand what the philosophy behind her addition was. Why make a character that's just broken?

[dribson]

The point of Lilith is the use and abuse familiars. Incubus copies (almost) all of your tear affects. Box of Friends makes a copy of ALL familiars for the current room, essentially doubling potential DPS every 4 rooms. She's just a different playstyle.

She's exceptional at Greed Mode and Boss Rush, as those increase charge as waves are completed.

Some items are better on Lilith as well. Cursed Eye, since you yourself are not charging, doesn't teleport you out of the room. Incubus, on the other hand, shoots 3 tears at a time, with no delay in fire rate. Number One increases fire rate with no loss of range. Etc.
I'd read up on the Incubus[bindingofisaacrebirth.gamepedia.com] wiki page to see what works and what doesn't.

As for your complaint about The Lost - as pre-Afterbirth, he didn't start with Holy Mantle, only the D4. Health Up and other worthless items could be rerolled without fear of losing Mantle.

[Viking Mana]

It's pretty far from "almost all". And I disagree that the playstyle is really any different. The only real difference is that you can't aim properly, and that lots of enemies are going to get cheap shots in purely because there was no way for you to target and kill them in time.

I've looked at what the Incubus can do. It sure does make for a fun minion on a regular run with a regular character. What it doesn't do, is make for a fun run when it's the only method of attack you have to rely on. I also used The Lost, as he used to be, as an example. They then fixed the issue by enabling a static Holy Mantle and the ability to reroll. Although I'd still argue that the better, and frankly more fun, choice, would've been to simply remove items with literally no effect from his item pool. It's doesn't make an extremely difficult more fun to play to just have half of your rewards stripped from you.

She's good at Boss Rush and Greed Mode - I'll give you that. But only because those gamemodes effectively break her starting item. If you can keep collecting charges without leaving the room, as you can in Greed Mode, she is, without dispute, the single most broken character to start with. You'll have 4 Incubi by the time the Deal with the Devil wave comes around.

But it doesn't make her fun to play. It's the classic Mom's Knife on the first floor situation; you're basically forced into a position where you can only do well, thus the fun aspect is basically removed. At least until The Womb where a flat Mom's Knife is no longer effective.

In conclusion, TL;DR, I disagree. She's not "different". You still simply walk into a room and try to shoot things. The only difference is that you only have limited control over where said shots end up, and it's extremely tedious to aim them. She's just not fun at all in my opinion. That's why I question the design decisions that led to her being included.

[Mediocre Melvin]

Its because shes cute, and i would pop a chub in her:, but only after 3 dates and with consent

[Viking Mana]

Originally posted by VirginBoy2003:

Its because shes cute, and i would pop a chub in her:, but only after 3 dates and with consent :8bitheart:

Looking at your username, I'd say that this tactic hasn't really been working out for you.

[CapnSquiggles]

If you have cambion conception she's one of the tops. Don't like playing her but she's super easy compared to appollyon and keeper.

[Viking Mana]

Originally posted by CapnSquiggles Prime:

If you have cambion conception she's one of the tops. Don't like playing her but she's super easy compared to appollyon and keeper.

I do. I also got my first Delirium hard-mode kill as Lilith. It's not that she's impossible, or even all that difficult, to play. My issue with her is that she's just not fun. Her gimmick is tedious at best and the fact that a good portion of tear-effect straight-up don't work for her makes cool items less exciting to get. Like the Lead Pencil example. Or Evil Eye.

She's easy enough. Get a couple of good minions and Box of Friends soon becomes ridiculous - Especially if you can recharge it on fights like Hush or Delirium. But it's not fun. At least not in my opinion. It's just a bit dull, really.

[Mediocre Melvin]

Originally posted by Viking Mana:

Originally posted by VirginBoy2003:

Its because shes cute, and i would pop a chub in her:, but only after 3 dates and with consent

Looking at your username, I'd say that this tactic hasn't really been working out for you.

It works, its just I never got past the first date.