Graphical Change Mod Talk

[2 headed dragon gf]

So if you're like me, I like graphic changes and recolors for TBOI. But something that bugs me for this DLC is that EVERY mod disables achievement, even the ones that just do graphic changes. This kinda pisses me off, what do you guys think about this?

[Blargo]

They had to re-implement this feature since Issac is about to explode with new mods. Currently, there is no way of telling if a mod is just something small like a recolor, or something big like "A new character that can 1-shot every boss in the game" or whatever.
So for now they have to disable achievements when mods are in use, because anyone could download that "super OP character" mod and get all the achievements by cheating.

I think in the future, mods should undergo some kind of "test" by moderators to determine if it is okay for a mod to allow achievements or not.

[TemmieNeko]

Originally posted by Dxpress:

They had to re-implement this feature since Issac is about to explode with new mods. Currently, there is no way of telling if a mod is just something small like a recolor, or something big like "A new character that can 1-shot every boss in the game" or whatever.
So for now they have to disable achievements when mods are in use, because anyone could download that "super OP character" mod and get all the achievements by cheating.

I think in the future, mods should undergo some kind of "test" by moderators to determine if it is okay for a mod to allow achievements or not.

when games like crypt of the necrodancer can detect if a mod is "just sprites or UI " or modify the game;s .xml.. i dont see why TBOI cant do it as well.
if the mod adds or changes to LUA, Item pools, or rooms, then it should be fine withouth being penalized.
this cant be very hard to implement.
and besides, if you add the mod manually, outside of game, it doesnt even affect anything liek disabling stuff... so why is it there in the first place?
raw steak, thats why

[Blargo]

Originally posted by TemmieNeko:

when games like crypt of the necrodancer can detect if a mod is "just sprites or UI " or modify the game;s .xml.. i dont see why TBOI cant do it as well.
if the mod adds or changes to LUA, Item pools, or rooms, then it should be fine withouth being penalized.
this cant be very hard to implement.
and besides, if you add the mod manually, outside of game, it doesnt even affect anything liek disabling stuff... so why is it there in the first place?
raw steak, thats why

...Yeah. That's what I said. The game currently can't detect if a mod is "big" or "small", but that's not to say it never will.

[2 headed dragon gf]

Originally posted by Dxpress:

Originally posted by TemmieNeko:

when games like crypt of the necrodancer can detect if a mod is "just sprites or UI " or modify the game;s .xml.. i dont see why TBOI cant do it as well.
if the mod adds or changes to LUA, Item pools, or rooms, then it should be fine withouth being penalized.
this cant be very hard to implement.
and besides, if you add the mod manually, outside of game, it doesnt even affect anything liek disabling stuff... so why is it there in the first place?
raw steak, thats why

...Yeah. That's what I said. The game currently can't detect if a mod is "big" or "small", but that's not to say it never will.

I hope they do, i would like this DLC a bit better. because right now, its not that great

[KTCaprat]

This argument is pointless. When I can just go into my save file, unlock everything, and obtain all achievements that way, there's no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have achievement gaining with mods. I don't have any intentions of actually cheating personally, but now I'm tempted to do so just so I can enjoy the unlimited replay value that comes with mods.

People are going to cheat if they want to cheat. It is literally impossible to stop them from doing so, so stop punnishing both the cheaters and the players wanting to run with legit mods that just do cool things, instead of offering free wins. It's a single player game anyways, it doesn't need to be policed.

[L0G1STX aka MAGA Man]

Originally posted by Ceonn:

This argument is pointless. When I can just go into my save file, unlock everything, and obtain all achievements that way, there's no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have achievement gaining with mods. I don't have any intentions of actually cheating personally, but now I'm tempted to do so just so I can enjoy the unlimited replay value that comes with mods.

People are going to cheat if they want to cheat. It is literally impossible to stop them from doing so, so stop punnishing both the cheaters and the players wanting to run with legit mods that just do cool things, instead of offering free wins. It's a single player game anyways, it doesn't need to be policed.

its not just about that though, come on you think they're really that stupid? It's also about protecting their hard core community members. Their 1001%ers and Platinum Goders that worked so hard to get where they are at. Currently achievements are like "stripes" or badges, when you give everyone a level playing field, then you take away what it means to have a Platinum God profile, you know? It's not just about "stopping cheaters" it's about protecting the most loyal of fans too, guys who have VERY HIGH subs on youtube, like NL and such... You really don't want to piss them off, especially when they are on the winning side of an argument. Wouldn't it be a shame if I JUST STARTED a youtube channel that suddenly has NL stats? How do you think he would feel? There's always the "bigger person" thing, but then again when you put 1500+ hours into a game, that prinicple becomes moot... I'm sure this is just a temporary measure anyway as people have already found ways to re-enable the achievements. What is wrong with make people work a little bit hard to enable it? At least they didn't hide it completely, the fix is actually simple.

[?!]

They're trying to work out a way to allow for cosmetic mods and unlocks to co-exist.

[L0G1STX aka MAGA Man]

Originally posted by Ceonn:

This argument is pointless. When I can just go into my save file, unlock everything, and obtain all achievements that way, there's no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have achievement gaining with mods. I don't have any intentions of actually cheating personally, but now I'm tempted to do so just so I can enjoy the unlimited replay value that comes with mods.

People are going to cheat if they want to cheat. It is literally impossible to stop them from doing so, so stop punnishing both the cheaters and the players wanting to run with legit mods that just do cool things, instead of offering free wins. It's a single player game anyways, it doesn't need to be policed.

and yeah you could go unlock everything, but most would be cheaters don't know how to do that anyway. It's kinda like the Torque 6 security screw argument, not many people have one of those lying around to take apart electronics, but if they use a regular screwdriver they strip the screw right? it's a clever way to keep fiddlers out but still alllow people who know what they're doing, in. get it?

[L0G1STX aka MAGA Man]

Originally posted by Owluu:

They're trying to work out a way to allow for cosmetic mods and unlocks to co-exist.

right! and there is currently a workaround that involves editing a few files. The instructions are on the charge bar mod page for anyone who really wants to enable mods back

[KTCaprat]

Originally posted by J'Mar DeDos El Medio:

Originally posted by Ceonn:

This argument is pointless. When I can just go into my save file, unlock everything, and obtain all achievements that way, there's no good reason why I shouldn't be allowed to have achievement gaining with mods. I don't have any intentions of actually cheating personally, but now I'm tempted to do so just so I can enjoy the unlimited replay value that comes with mods.

People are going to cheat if they want to cheat. It is literally impossible to stop them from doing so, so stop punnishing both the cheaters and the players wanting to run with legit mods that just do cool things, instead of offering free wins. It's a single player game anyways, it doesn't need to be policed.

and yeah you could go unlock everything, but most would be cheaters don't know how to do that anyway. It's kinda like the Torque 6 security screw argument, not many people have one of those lying around to take apart electronics, but if they use a regular screwdriver they strip the screw right? it's a clever way to keep fiddlers out but still alllow people who know what they're doing, in. get it?

Platinum god players don't need protecting. They know the difference between a player who cheated to get there and a player who earned it fair and square, and the cost of trying to protect their epeen (for lack of a better term) is alienating to people like me that want to play the game legit, and grab some balanced mods for even more awesome item variety. When I saw Isaac mods were going through originally, I was so excited! I played about half of rebirth and stopped because life got busy, and when I came back to it and heard about that I swore off playing it till that came out cause I felt that'd be the definitive way to play this game. Now I feel like I wasted money on this game.

Why not simply disable -steam- achievements? I don't give a damn about those. I just want to play the game from scratch and experience what a good modding community can do to make this game feel fresh alongside the creators themselves. At the moment, that's impossible because it comes at the cost of losing the ability to unlock items. I felt the same before when I couldn't casually experience the game along with northern lion with seeds.

Best of both worlds, disable steam achievements for your mod save. Boom, everyone who got the achievements outside of that save gets them on steam as well, as a badge of honor, whilst players like me who don't care about that can simply enjoy the game without feeling like they need to put in 300+ hours to get platinum god and not miss out on content.

And I figured out how to cheat in afterbirth and rebirth with one quick google search, and every moron who wants to can do the same. When such tools become available for Plus, it will simply be a matter of -when- people will make them accessible, and how quickly one can simply search them up. It's unfair in my honest opinion to players like me that want to play a legit run through this game with mods in tow to be punished for the potential ability to cheat. It is not worth protecting Platinum god players achievements, and if they're going to go so far as to half ass their attempts to get in those cheating players way and not stop their programs at the root, then they shouldn't bother trying at all.

Either A: Disable achievements and hunt down exploits in code that modders will use to bypass that and not hold a half and half stance

B: Enable achievements alltogether

Or C: My earlier suggestion, find a way to keep steam achievements seperate from in game collecting within each individual save. Like an agreement when you make a save specifying that if you use mods on it, you'll create a new save living in a new fourth slot that copies a save of your choosing when first made, and this save is the only save that mods work in. You can't keep your progress inside that save in way of getting steam achievements, but you can still copy another save where you make further progress at a later date if say, you make the modded save and then get platinum god on your legit save and want to port it over to your mod save slot. Something along those lines, and more thought out than the time required for me to write this post.

Bottom Line though!
It is a bad idea to alienate players even if you're protecting something like plat god. Very few players even have it. (And most of them cheated to get it anyways) And I hardly think they're more valuable than the many MANY people satisfied by the alternative.

[TemmieNeko]

Originally posted by Ceonn:

Originally posted by J'Mar DeDos El Medio:

and yeah you could go unlock everything, but most would be cheaters don't know how to do that anyway. It's kinda like the Torque 6 security screw argument, not many people have one of those lying around to take apart electronics, but if they use a regular screwdriver they strip the screw right? it's a clever way to keep fiddlers out but still alllow people who know what they're doing, in. get it?

Platinum god players don't need protecting. They know the difference between a player who cheated to get there and a player who earned it fair and square, and the cost of trying to protect their epeen (for lack of a better term) is alienating to people like me that want to play the game legit, and grab some balanced mods for even more awesome item variety. When I saw Isaac mods were going through originally, I was so excited! I played about half of rebirth and stopped because life got busy, and when I came back to it and heard about that I swore off playing it till that came out cause I felt that'd be the definitive way to play this game. Now I feel like I wasted money on this game.

Why not simply disable -steam- achievements? I don't give a damn about those. I just want to play the game from scratch and experience what a good modding community can do to make this game feel fresh alongside the creators themselves. At the moment, that's impossible because it comes at the cost of losing the ability to unlock items. I felt the same before when I couldn't casually experience the game along with northern lion with seeds.

Best of both worlds, disable steam achievements for your mod save. Boom, everyone who got the achievements outside of that save gets them on steam as well, as a badge of honor, whilst players like me who don't care about that can simply enjoy the game without feeling like they need to put in 300+ hours to get platinum god and not miss out on content.

And I figured out how to cheat in afterbirth and rebirth with one quick google search, and every moron who wants to can do the same. When such tools become available for Plus, it will simply be a matter of -when- people will make them accessible, and how quickly one can simply search them up. It's unfair in my honest opinion to players like me that want to play a legit run through this game with mods in tow to be punished for the potential ability to cheat. It is not worth protecting Platinum god players achievements, and if they're going to go so far as to half ass their attempts to get in those cheating players way and not stop their programs at the root, then they shouldn't bother trying at all.

Either A: Disable achievements and hunt down exploits in code that modders will use to bypass that and not hold a half and half stance

B: Enable achievements alltogether

Or C: My earlier suggestion, find a way to keep steam achievements seperate from in game collecting within each individual save. Like an agreement when you make a save specifying that if you use mods on it, you'll create a new save living in a new fourth slot that copies a save of your choosing when first made, and this save is the only save that mods work in. You can't keep your progress inside that save in way of getting steam achievements, but you can still copy another save where you make further progress at a later date if say, you make the modded save and then get platinum god on your legit save and want to port it over to your mod save slot. Something along those lines, and more thought out than the time required for me to write this post.

Bottom Line though!
It is a bad idea to alienate players even if you're protecting something like plat god. Very few players even have it. (And most of them cheated to get it anyways) And I hardly think they're more valuable than the many MANY people satisfied by the alternative.

personally i dont think it matter one way or the other. if tryhards wanna harrass players for wanting to have fun ( gasp) or maybe people that didnt play BOI every minute of every day, for 2 years until AB+ came out- bc i know the elite cucks love to insult those who arent memoerizing all 500+ items, an know the game inside and out.

also, this binding of isaac community as awhole is just toxic, and really, really irritating. try asking a legit question here, or post gameplay on youtube and you'll see what I mean.

It's extremely cancerous, and most of the time all of the petty issues are being brought up by butthurt fans thatthink since they bought a game, they are entitled to dictate how the devs act, and what is deemed" worthy" of their precious, precious game.

in short- the fact you can bug out achiavements means there's no reason to give two sh1ts about mods - the dev really shouldve just let them al work. We all know cheaters exist ( my fiel got fu**ed bc i played with tons of mods, so it's whatever, i still play the game legitly- but mods are there to extend the gameplay when you are bored of things.

so be that as it may... i think alot of players are not polaying the game for fun, but rather; to complain yet again ( circa- AB initial release ) history repeats itself -

[2 headed dragon gf]

i was not honestly expecting all this lol