Synergy a mechanic that needs more work

[void336]

Let me tell you an all to common story. I was playing binding of isaac an had gotten some awesome items. The core of my run were ipecac and libra, resulting in rapid fire explosive tears.
Then I go into an item room and pick up an item that I couldn't identify, that item was Ludovico Technique. After that my sure win run was ruined because Ludovico Technique overides ipecac and the two dont synergize.

For those who are waiting for the point of all this, I will tell you now. Synergys as a game mechanic are flawed. Not flawed in a buggy sense but flawed in the sense that they are not fully implemented.

Now comes the important part. The binding of isaac afterbirth+ is supose to give us long term support and content updates. In those future updates I belive that rather then adding new items to a game that has a hell of a lot of them already it would be more beneficial to add less items and more synergys. For example why cant brimstone + ipecac create an explotion that travels across the room like a beam. Why cant moms knife + dr fetus make the knife drop a lit bomb one time each time you throw it and it deals damage. And indead why can't ipecac + Ludovico Technique create and explosive remote projectile that can blow up repeatedly.

Ok, I think you get the idea. Really I am just puting this on the forum in the hope that in gains some consideration. If you can think of anymore synergys that don't currently work, please tell us what you might want that synergy to do if more synergys are added to the game. Hopefully the Dev team will take a look at this thread if it gains some attention.

If you have read this far then thank you reading

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

Originally posted by void336:

Let me tell you an all to common story. I was playing binding of isaac an had gotten some awesome items. The core of my run were ipecac and libra, resulting in rapid fire explosive tears.
Then I go into an item room and pick up an item that I couldn't identify, that item was Ludovico Technique. After that my sure win run was ruined because Ludovico Technique overides ipecac and the two dont synergize.

For those who are waiting for the point of all this, I will tell you now. Synergys as a game mechanic are flawed. Not flawed in a buggy sense but flawed in the sense that they are not fully implemented.

Now comes the important part. The binding of isaac afterbirth+ is supose to give us long term support and content updates. In those future updates I belive that rather then adding new items to a game that has a hell of a lot of them already it would be more beneficial to add less items and more synergys. For example why cant brimstone + ipecac create an explotion that travels across the room like a beam. Why cant moms knife + dr fetus make the knife drop a lit bomb one time each time you throw it and it deals damage. And indead why can't ipecac + Ludovico Technique create and explosive remote projectile that can blow up repeatedly.

Ok, I think you get the idea. Really I am just puting this on the forum in the hope that in gains some consideration. If you can think of anymore synergys that don't currently work, please tell us what you might want that synergy to do if more synergys are added to the game. Hopefully the Dev team will take a look at this thread if it gains some attention.

If you have read this far then thank you reading

Who's "us" exactly? And, I definitely agree with what you're saying! It also made me realize why the need for more content when the game needs a bit of balancing and create sensible synergies.

[void336]

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

Who's "us" exactly? And, I definitely agree with what you're saying! It also made me realize why the need for more content when the game needs a bit of balancing and create sensible synergies.

"Us" in this context is anybody who reads this post. And thanks for the reply, I am glad to see that somebody argees with my opinion

[ogeraisi]

Your argument is flawed, yes there can exist more interesting and fun synergies and now with modding support we do have the ability to create them but since there is an large number of items and an insanely number of possible item permutations that can be picked up on a run there is no way to create synergies for each and every one of those permutations, of course "synergies are not fully implemented" not just because of what mentioned above but because there is no rulebook to which synergies should exist.

[void336]

Originally posted by ogeraisi:

Your argument is flawed, yes there can exist more interesting and fun synergies and now with modding support we do have the ability to create them but since there is an large number of items and an insanely number of possible item permutations that can be picked up on a run there is no way to create synergies for each and every one of those permutations, of course "synergies are not fully implemented" not just because of what mentioned above but because there is no rulebook to which synergies should exist.

I agree with you that there are to many items to create synergys for all of them but I have two valid points for this arguement.

1) In the case of most of the current problems resulting from lack of synergys, the issue is not that they can't synergize but simply that they don't synergize. What I mean by that is that it is easy to imagine what should result from having said items but instead either nothing happens or, such as in my case, one overwrites the effect of the other. In these cases it is easily possible for the dev team to add synergys where they should be, as the problems are discovered.

2) In the case that two or more items have effects that either cannot conceivably create a synergy or where creating a synergy for them is to difficult, I believe that in these cases it would be best to make the items mutually exclusive. In the original binding of isaac there were items that removed other items from the item pool when you pick them up. For example the dead cat removed all items that could increase your heath. The same method could be used to prevent items that don't work together from being found in the same run.

I think that both of these methods being employed would make the game more enjoyable, but even so I would prefer more item synergys rather then lots of mutually exclusive items.

[Violeta]

If a new tear effect overides ipecac it becomes a +4 damage up from some of the newer patch notes I remember seeing.

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

Originally posted by void336:

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

Who's "us" exactly? And, I definitely agree with what you're saying! It also made me realize why the need for more content when the game needs a bit of balancing and create sensible synergies.

"Us" in this context is anybody who reads this post. And thanks for the reply, I am glad to see that somebody argees with my opinion

[ESonsn]

I'm not gonna get into this whole argument, but as someone who has had ipecac and picked up ludivico technique as well, I fully expected my controllable tear to explode upon hitting an enemy. Sadly I was mistaken.

[Batabii • Suikoden I&II HD]

1. they just fixed a buttload of synergies in the last week
2. Ed & ty have stated that a large amount of synergies had to be hardcoded. Remember how many didn't work in the original isaac?

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

1. they just fixed a buttload of synergies in the last week
2. Ed & ty have stated that a large amount of synergies had to be hardcoded. Remember how many didn't work in the original isaac?

I don't know if in the original Isaac they actually worked on synergies, though. Or maybe due to the engine of the game it was impossible to code.

[Batabii • Suikoden I&II HD]

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

1. they just fixed a buttload of synergies in the last week
2. Ed & ty have stated that a large amount of synergies had to be hardcoded. Remember how many didn't work in the original isaac?

I don't know if in the original Isaac they actually worked on synergies, though. Or maybe due to the engine of the game it was impossible to code.

Certain things had natural synergies, like spoon bender and parasite, but nothing that actually changed the shape of tears for the most part.

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

I don't know if in the original Isaac they actually worked on synergies, though. Or maybe due to the engine of the game it was impossible to code.

Certain things had natural synergies, like spoon bender and parasite, but nothing that actually changed the shape of tears for the most part.

I see.

[Batabii • Suikoden I&II HD]

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

Certain things had natural synergies, like spoon bender and parasite, but nothing that actually changed the shape of tears for the most part.

I see.

Wiggle worm used to be a passive item, and that was one of the few things that actually altered Brimstone and Technology although it was a little bit buggy

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

I see.

Wiggle worm used to be a passive item, and that was one of the few things that actually altered Brimstone and Technology although it was a little bit buggy

Yeah, I remember, haha! That was weird.

[void336]

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

Originally posted by DЁFTOЙЁS:

I don't know if in the original Isaac they actually worked on synergies, though. Or maybe due to the engine of the game it was impossible to code.

Certain things had natural synergies, like spoon bender and parasite, but nothing that actually changed the shape of tears for the most part.

I remember the original Isaac. Synergys did naturaly happen with some items but they were only expanded into a full on game mechanic with isaac rebirth.

Also I have seen the latest patch notes and if they continue to work on synergys like they have with most of the ones that I saw then I will be happy. The only exeption that I saw being ipecac becuse adding +4 damage when ipecac is overwriten is not as powerful or as much fun as ipecac on its own. Maybe this was a quick fix and with be altered again in future.

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

Originally posted by void336:

Originally posted by Batabii - Add some protein:

Certain things had natural synergies, like spoon bender and parasite, but nothing that actually changed the shape of tears for the most part.

I remember the original Isaac. Synergys did naturaly happen with some items but they were only expanded into a full on game mechanic with isaac rebirth.

Also I have seen the latest patch notes and if they continue to work on synergys like they have with most of the ones that I saw then I will be happy. The only exeption that I saw being ipecac becuse adding +4 damage when ipecac is overwriten is not as powerful or as much fun as ipecac on its own. Maybe this was a quick fix and with be altered again in future.

Yeah, it's like they were limited in the original and finally been worked right on Rebirth - in any possible way. I don't know if synergies are based on imagination or logic because it's just a game, but it's possible to make the most bizzare synergy in the game if the developers will work on something; like Brimstone bombs - the actual pickup bombs (maybe good as an item instead), or Little Planet with Tech X, having small little lasers floating around you. Crazy s*it like that.