Unbalanced COOP

[LordAcceptable]

[Edit]: For anyone struggling with Local coop balance: Buy the DLC!
It does a lot more, but also balances the DMG output to a very nice level.
Have a nice day!

Hello everyone,

I already tried to talk about this issue few years ago and quite sure that I am not the only one who gets annoyed by it.... hopefully this time someone answers or better : make a workshop-mod. Or at best: The creators would play a few rounds coop and see the problem here.

I really love coop and especially local-coop for obvious reasons. Anyway:
Why is it such a huge disadvantage?! Without ANY advantages

There are very rare moments in which the flying second player could distract ground enemies at holes to keep them busy. Or enemies only hittable from behind can be attacked as a Team ( but that was never a problem alone and the DMG debuff kills this usage of P2).
Those are the only rare moments which felt like player 2 is helpfull.

Basically you share your healthpool for a second hitbox and the enemies getting buffed beyond good and evil. Full fire by both players can >BARELY< compare to Isaacs DMG output alone.

It feels like Isaac looses ~50% dmg and like thats not enough: the second player doesnt deal the missing 50%. Its way less effective with 2 players and gets double punished by the second hitbox.

In conclusion: in coop you have 2 hitboxes, loose a lot of overview (caused by many many tears) and enemies are getting stronger (or the Players weaker).
I am really annoyed by the fact that you have to "pay a high price" to play with your friend and also agree to a hard "challenge mode".
The worst part is : In most cases the second player is unexperienced and often thinks your hearts are delicous ;) ...

There are so many ways to make coop a fun and fair experience. For Example:

-JUST REMOVE THE DEBUFF for god sake! Double the damage for double the hitbox seems like a fair deal to me!! (the 2nd player could still have less dmg, but Isaac shouldnt be debuffed or veeeeeeery slightly. But the added DMG of both players shouldbe atleast 150%)

-It would be also okay if the buff stays and the Player 2 could place bombs (was possible at release !!!! what happened?!), open chests, collect items which are unable to reach for Isaac or even hold his own usable-Item, pills etc.
(this could be restricted and only be unlocked if Player 2 is here for more than 1 stage. To prevent abuse in single runs. Or instead of drop in &drop out, you have to choose at the start if Single or Coop)

-Atleast an option to remove the debuff, which disables archievements and unlocks.
(that would help for completely fresh beginners who wants to play a round.... or when nobodys sober anymore...)

There are so many ways to fix & balance it.

But at this state? Coop is exactly 1 thing : A non-rewarding challenge to make a run nearly impossible.

I really asked myself a few times : did they really test/play coop? Or have they programmed it, checked if P2 moves and shoots, then said : "good!, COOP done!"

Hopefully this will reach the right persons or atleast somebody. Would be nice to hear other opinions and experiences, maybe it just seems so unfair and unbalanced to me.

P.S.: There was already an MOD in work called "true-coop" but got shut down sadly. But the test footage showed some waaaaay more balanced and fair gameplay.

Wish you guys a nice day :)
Chris

[Syynx]

My SO and I tried playing coop but it's just awful. Especially once you get to the floors that deal a full heart of damage when you get hit, since any hit on player 2 will instantly kill him most of the time once we get to that point in the game whoever's playing player 2 just opts out till the run's over.

Coop in this game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid. I can't wait for Antibirth to get Rebirth+ support so we can actually play with a real coop mode

[burn1none]

if your coop friend is halfway competant its actually a huge advantage, you literally double your tears for the cost of one heart. thats cheaper than incubus and much stronger because you dont actually lose the heart and they have flying. also Ive seen 0 indication that Isaacs damage goes down at all, what are your sources for that info.

another thing is its possible to cheat devil deals and take two heart deals with only two hearts similar to how the keeper can take two heart deals. when player one with one heart picks up the two heart item, while he is still homding the item above his head player two immediatwly despawns and gives player 1 the heart back. also magnet baby can pick up consumables and open chests.

[Syynx]

Originally posted by burn1none:

you literally double your tears for the cost of one heart.

At the cost of a heart, half of player 1's damage, and an additonal hitbox. It's garbage.

Originally posted by burn1none:

also magnet baby can pick up consumables and open chests.

Omg player 2 can do something player 1 can do if they get lucky and get the magnet baby? Stop spoiling us, game!

[burn1none]

Originally posted by Syynx:

Originally posted by burn1none:

you literally double your tears for the cost of one heart.

At the cost of a heart half of player 1's damage, and 2 hitboxes. It's garbage.

maybe if you arent very experienced. also damage doesnt go down at all as far as I can tell, what makes you guys think that?

[Syynx]

Originally posted by burn1none:

maybe if you arent very experienced. also damage doesnt go down at all as far as I can tell, what makes you guys think that?

http://platinumgod.co.uk/babies

If you haven't noticed the decreased damage then maybe you aren't very experienced.

[burn1none]

Originally posted by Syynx:

Originally posted by burn1none:

maybe if you arent very experienced. also damage doesnt go down at all as far as I can tell, what makes you guys think that?

http://platinumgod.co.uk/babies

well maybe its different in Afterbirth because last time I played with my friend who is good we didnt see damage go down and we play with missing hud on

[burn1none]

Originally posted by Syynx:

If you haven't noticed the decreased damage then maybe you aren't very experienced.

haha or maybe it doesnt affect me at all since Im actually good at the game. look at my achievments dude, Ive done everything

[LordAcceptable]

:'D nice to see some discussion here !

Originally posted by burn1none:

also Ive seen 0 indication that Isaacs damage goes down at all, what are your sources for that info.

If you play coop and your partner dies, during a Bossfight. Then you see the change in DMG in the HP bar. Or count hits on tougher enemies. Put your HUD back on if you cant "feel" the difference.

Originally posted by burn1none:

also magnet baby can pick up consumables and open chests.

And the Magnet-Baby?!" for real ? yeah, he can pick up and open stuff... but he cant shoot! I dont think its helpfull. We call it the suicide baby

Can anyone confirm a difference in Afterbirth coop? I still didnt buy it. Guess its time !

[burn1none]

well yeah what you do is use the magnet baby to grab stuff, then despawn and respawn as a different baby.

[Arghaab]

Originally posted by Deeto:

If you play coop and your partner dies, during a Bossfight. Then you see the change in DMG in the HP bar. Or count hits on tougher enemies. Put your HUD back on if you cant "feel" the difference.

Just did, and there's no difference.

[LordAcceptable]

Back here again. Now i couldn`t resist and bought Afterbirth.
First of all : They fixed it and a lot more

Nice graphics upgrade btw
-DMG is balanced! I testet it with my usual COOP partner. Also want to clarify that both of us can finish a run alone in the original game.
Its a little debuffed, but i would go so far and say ist even WORTH the second hitbox.
-P2 can place bombs !!
-You can choose from 5 special (limited to 1 life each) Babys from a pool and always from babys with no effect. But thats also on the Wiki
-There is now indeed a very good usage for that Magnetbaby!

I am stunned its amazing!
The coop-balancing alone would be worth ten bucks to be honest.. but THIS is awesome!
Way more than I expected and of course highly recommend the DLC for anyone looking for the Local-COOP part of the game

[burn1none]

and everyone lived happily ever after

[Nazemec]

Originally posted by burn1none:

and everyone lived happily ever after

I'm waiting for part 2, when OP will see how Antibirth did coop and then will rant about Rebirth/Afterbirth's version. :P

[burn1none]

Originally posted by Nazemec:

Originally posted by burn1none:

and everyone lived happily ever after

I'm waiting for part 2, when OP will see how Antibirth did coop and then will rant about Rebirth/Afterbirth's version. :P

Im still waiting for it to be officially added before I brick my game with mods

[Jinn-Gon Qui]

The Co-op in Antibirth is just OP and sick altogether, while the one on Afterbirth+ is somewhat interesting due to the special babies and that they get a small stats boost from you taking stats up items, AND you can play with three more people.