Cheater Problem: Why is it so bad and why does XYZ not work

[Kaymaro]

I already postet that on a other Thread, but i thought i just gonna make a new Topic about it

The more I read about this topic, the more I realize that many people here have no idea what hacking actually means, how it works and why many “good approaches” are not such a big problem in the end. That's why, as a former hacker and cheat developer, I'm just going to throw out some information.

1. “The game simply has to cost money. Just charge 30-90€ for it” - There are many legit providers who offer such games [even immediately after release] at a lower price. There are also ways to buy games in other countries and thus in other currencies using VPNs. Meaning, if the game actually costs 60€, it is possible for me to buy it for 30€ [or more or less]. In addition, if the game is only a little older [say 1 year], it is not uncommon to be able to buy Steam accounts on various forums for cheap money that own this game. [CSGO is the best example, where Steam accounts with Prime cost 2-5€ in the worst case]. Most hackers and cheaters have no idea how their cheat works, let alone how to make one. Means they have to buy hacks. If someone is willing to spend 60€ a month on a hack, do you really think that 40€ once for a game [depending on how they hack of course this account could last months] will stop them or really harm them?

2. “Simply ban the IP/hardware” - IP bans have been old-fashioned for years and are no longer really used. The reason for this is simply that IPV4 addresses have been used up, which is why IPV6 is slowly coming into play. A simple router restart automatically assigns a new IP in most cases. So this is not effective at all. The only real option would be to ban the hardware. Each piece of hardware has its own personal ID. This is therefore better and more effective to ban only a certain person and not someone else who may have been assigned your IP. The problem here again is that there are so-called HWID spoofers. What they do is [you can probably already guess] replace individual IDs from your devices [graphics card, CPU, hard disk], both temporarily and permanently. There are also some cheat developers who incorporate this directly into their hack. This means that the ID is automatically spoofed before it can be hacked.

3. “Use XYZ anticheat, kernel is useless” - Kernel anticheats are important nowadays, why? Because some cheats no longer simply run directly on the PC, such hacks/cheats are called DMA [Direct Memory Access]. What this means is the following:

This here is your primary gaming computer where you play your games. You just install a DMA here [Thats a Hardware component], allowing it to directly access and manipulate the game's memory.

What you do now is set up another PC [doesn't have to be a high-end gaming PC, a simple laptop from the store next door will do]. The secondary computer runs the DMA software. It processes the data received from the main PC and displays crucial information to your main PC. Hyper-V cheats are also popular. Hyper-visor cheats leverage the power of virtual machines to manipulate game processes. Essentially, the game runs within a virtual environment, and the cheat controls the game from the outside. I could go into more detail about other cheat variants [External and Internal] but that would go beyond the scope.

So, what is the solution to cheaters? My personal opinion on the subject is: AI

There is an interesting company/concept for this which I have been following for several years: https://www.anybrain.gg/

This is already being used to some extent in certain games [one assumes something like CSGO/Rainbow etc]. The anticheat is not pro-active, which means it doesn't currently ban directly in these games, but that's because it's still in the development phase [Maybe there are already some Games where it bans, but then idk which one]. The AI still needs a little input and information. But I believe that once this level has been reached and a good foundation has been laid, it will definitely change the issue of cheating/hacking. How and to what extent remains to be seen.

Cheers

[jmido8]

They need to make it harder to get new accounts. Require an ID verification and phone number to play. China does it and it actually works surprisingly well. Not only does it need an ID, but you oftentimes need to take a real-life photo of the ID using their camera app so you can't just use a downloaded photo or fake id. Of course there will still be ways around it, but it' makes it so much more difficult.

Why do you think so many Chinese players go play on the international servers? It's because they can cheat risk free without needing to use their own personal ID.

[Kaymaro]

Originally posted by jmido8:

They need to make it harder to get new accounts. Require an ID verification and phone number to play. China does it and it actually works surprisingly well. Not only does it need an ID, but you oftentimes need to take a real-life photo of the ID using their camera app so you can't just use a downloaded photo or fake id. Of course there will still be ways around it, but it' makes it so much more difficult.

Why do you think so many Chinese players go play on the international servers? It's because they can cheat risk free without needing to use their own personal ID.

This is also nothing major that would stop anyone. Catfish, one of the largest cheat platforms from China, has made around 77 million USD with PUBG Mobile alone. Most of their developers were caught in 2021, which is why the site had to close. Many sites etc as you described require ID verification or phone verification, I agree with you. But here again the problem: No 5 minutes googling, you find countless China ID's + names [many of them still seem to work], phone number? 20 cent number from sms-man.com. Even taking a real-life photo, scanning any ID documents etc. is no longer a big challenge these days with a few euros. And no, i won't name any sites for reasons.

But even if that were the solution......, why not total surveillance? Why not simply commission Microsoft etc. to install software directly on the PC that really monitors everything? Would be even better than the current way of China, simply because it would be impossible to get fake ID's/numbers unnoticed [How could it, if everything is logged and monitored]?

[Kaymaro]

One thing I would like to add is that a player from China doesn't really have that much of an advantage playing on Western servers etc. when it comes to potentially avoiding penalties and such.

Why?

Tencent is the biggest gaming company in the world, they own practically everything. Whether it's Epic Games, COD, Blizzard [used to be, not so anymore] or or, the list is long. Guess why it feels like every game [let's take Fortnite as an example] celebrates Chinese New Year with skins etc etc? Not because they think Chinese culture is great, but because of Tencent.

Guess why Blizzard banned a Chinese player in 2019 because he took a negative stance against the current political developments in China in a tournament? Because Tencent had a problem with it. Not only was he banned and got into trouble in the country, no no. He was also stripped of his prize money.

[𝐎ᥣᑯ𝐑𝖾ᑯ𝐅ⱺ𝗑]

AnyBrain is fully working and ready to go. The devs need to contact them.

[jmido8]

Originally posted by Kaymaro:

One thing I would like to add is that a player from China doesn't really have that much of an advantage playing on Western servers etc. when it comes to potentially avoiding penalties and such.

Why?

Tencent is the biggest gaming company in the world, they own practically everything. Whether it's Epic Games, COD, Blizzard [used to be, not so anymore] or or, the list is long. Guess why it feels like every game [let's take Fortnite as an example] celebrates Chinese New Year with skins etc etc? Not because they think Chinese culture is great, but because of Tencent.

Guess why Blizzard banned a Chinese player in 2019 because he took a negative stance against the current political developments in China in a tournament? Because Tencent had a problem with it. Not only was he banned and got into trouble in the country, no no. He was also stripped of his prize money.

This is a naïve logic. China requires ID because they have a social score system. It doesn't matter if tencent owns everything if they don't require your Id which can penalize you... Why do you think they play on international servers instead of Chinese servers where they get better ping and have a bigger playerbase? It's because cheating in China affects their ability to have a house, to take public transportation, to do lots of stuff. But guess what... they can play the same game on the international servers without any repercussions.

Please tell me, if there are such easy ways to get around the ID verification, why do they prefer to play on international servers? Oh... is it because it's easier to get an account on international servers?

Originally posted by Kaymaro:

Originally posted by jmido8:

They need to make it harder to get new accounts. Require an ID verification and phone number to play. China does it and it actually works surprisingly well. Not only does it need an ID, but you oftentimes need to take a real-life photo of the ID using their camera app so you can't just use a downloaded photo or fake id. Of course there will still be ways around it, but it' makes it so much more difficult.

Why do you think so many Chinese players go play on the international servers? It's because they can cheat risk free without needing to use their own personal ID.

This is also nothing major that would stop anyone. Catfish, one of the largest cheat platforms from China, has made around 77 million USD with PUBG Mobile alone. Most of their developers were caught in 2021, which is why the site had to close. Many sites etc as you described require ID verification or phone verification, I agree with you. But here again the problem: No 5 minutes googling, you find countless China ID's + names [many of them still seem to work], phone number? 20 cent number from sms-man.com. Even taking a real-life photo, scanning any ID documents etc. is no longer a big challenge these days with a few euros. And no, i won't name any sites for reasons.

But even if that were the solution......, why not total surveillance? Why not simply commission Microsoft etc. to install software directly on the PC that really monitors everything? Would be even better than the current way of China, simply because it would be impossible to get fake ID's/numbers unnoticed [How could it, if everything is logged and monitored]?

You don't get the point, the harder you make something, the less people will do it. I'm a foreigner in China who can speak fluent Chinese. It's not easy to get around their ID requirements. Yes, it's possible, but the fact that it has deterred me is a testament that it will deter others as well.

The point isn't that it will stop cheating. The point is that it significantly deters the average
person from cheating. Also, you didn't refute the arguement about live verfication at all, you simply said "I know a work around that I won't share, trust me bro". You think websites can get around it, how many real ID's do they have? How many people could they actually service? If all the easy cheats shutdown and every single cheater turned to them, could they supply that many real ids... probably not.

I think the AI solution sounds really good, and I think they should also introduce id verification.

[jacksparra]

no issue with cheaters. get gud.

[[Ono] Bonedout]

cheaters are nothing but talent less brain dead people that deserve to be locked up

[Nosman123™]

In all my hours I've only ran in to 1 confirmed hacker in operation. I don't do warfare since I don't want to play battlefield 2042

[Kaymaro]

Originally posted by jmido8:

Originally posted by Kaymaro:

One thing I would like to add is that a player from China doesn't really have that much of an advantage playing on Western servers etc. when it comes to potentially avoiding penalties and such.

Why?

Tencent is the biggest gaming company in the world, they own practically everything. Whether it's Epic Games, COD, Blizzard [used to be, not so anymore] or or, the list is long. Guess why it feels like every game [let's take Fortnite as an example] celebrates Chinese New Year with skins etc etc? Not because they think Chinese culture is great, but because of Tencent.

Guess why Blizzard banned a Chinese player in 2019 because he took a negative stance against the current political developments in China in a tournament? Because Tencent had a problem with it. Not only was he banned and got into trouble in the country, no no. He was also stripped of his prize money.

This is a naïve logic. China requires ID because they have a social score system. It doesn't matter if tencent owns everything if they don't require your Id which can penalize you... Why do you think they play on international servers instead of Chinese servers where they get better ping and have a bigger playerbase? It's because cheating in China affects their ability to have a house, to take public transportation, to do lots of stuff. But guess what... they can play the same game on the international servers without any repercussions.

Please tell me, if there are such easy ways to get around the ID verification, why do they prefer to play on international servers? Oh... is it because it's easier to get an account on international servers?

Originally posted by Kaymaro:

This is also nothing major that would stop anyone. Catfish, one of the largest cheat platforms from China, has made around 77 million USD with PUBG Mobile alone. Most of their developers were caught in 2021, which is why the site had to close. Many sites etc as you described require ID verification or phone verification, I agree with you. But here again the problem: No 5 minutes googling, you find countless China ID's + names [many of them still seem to work], phone number? 20 cent number from sms-man.com. Even taking a real-life photo, scanning any ID documents etc. is no longer a big challenge these days with a few euros. And no, i won't name any sites for reasons.

But even if that were the solution......, why not total surveillance? Why not simply commission Microsoft etc. to install software directly on the PC that really monitors everything? Would be even better than the current way of China, simply because it would be impossible to get fake ID's/numbers unnoticed [How could it, if everything is logged and monitored]?

You don't get the point, the harder you make something, the less people will do it. I'm a foreigner in China who can speak fluent Chinese. It's not easy to get around their ID requirements. Yes, it's possible, but the fact that it has deterred me is a testament that it will deter others as well.

The point isn't that it will stop cheating. The point is that it significantly deters the average
person from cheating. Also, you didn't refute the arguement about live verfication at all, you simply said "I know a work around that I won't share, trust me bro". You think websites can get around it, how many real ID's do they have? How many people could they actually service? If all the easy cheats shutdown and every single cheater turned to them, could they supply that many real ids... probably not.

I think the AI solution sounds really good, and I think they should also introduce id verification.

If you want a site where you can conjure up various fake Perso's and co, also with real-life pictures and live-auth, see Docstagram.to . Not the best for the described China system, but this is only one of thousands if you really want to have a site. But then again, i wont provide any Website's where you could do that directly. Simple because i think its better you make your own researsch on things instead get every answer directly.

About where to get ID's, just google it. Here is an example:

Name Identity Number
陈娱 330724199401197120

I get your point and yes, the more action you take the less people will bother to get through. But time has simply shown that such systems and measures don't really last long and there are solutions that anyone can do without much prior knowledge. Definitely difficult at the beginning yes, let a little time pass and then things will look different again. At the beginning of hacking it was boring to be banned and then have to spend 60€ again. Nowadays you buy a full-verify account with games for 20 cents somewhere. What's the point of forced ID verification? It's not me, it's a random guy who has this account [along the lines of].Even if international servers also introduce this now, the focus will simply be on circumventing and falsifying IDs etc. This fights the symptoms, not the hacker problem itself. That's why I objected to Anybrain. The AI is good at distinguishing between a human and a script/hack that is being executed. It doesn't matter if the account is verified or where it is played. There, the problem is tackled directly at its core and no attempt is made to treat the symptoms around it

I would also have no problem at all to test everything again myself. I know how the process with the Verify works, I also went through it 4 years ago because someone from China needed help, also with the installation of a VPN.

But yes, I agree with you. It's definitely easier and quicker for a Chinese player on international servers than on his own. I would like to thank you for your input <3

[Kaymaro]

Originally posted by 𝐎ᥣᑯ𝐑𝖾ᑯ𝐅ⱺ𝗑:

AnyBrain is fully working and ready to go. The devs need to contact them.

That's great to hear, I thought it was still inactive and collecting data. Maybe the developers should contact anybrain, they can still use ACE as a kernel anticheat.

[Goatweed]

I say make cheating a petty crime.

[Ryuu]

cheater are rats