Delta Force

Delta Force

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tr1p Oct 16, 2024 @ 1:58pm
Sniper Re-work - The elephant in the room
The biggest issue currently is they put rocket trails on sniper tracers. Every Delta Force has always had regular tracers on them. The whole point of sniping in delta force is all about stealth.

Between a Rocket trail, "Glint" (This really needs to be removed), and red tags exposing your location if the reticle moves over an enemy in hiding it seems they've effectively killed anything to do with sniping in delta force.

If you look at old videos there's plenty of sniper battles people used to have. My longest sniper shot was 700 meters away across an entire map, it took a while to find him, why? because there was no rocket trail, no red dot and he was wearing a GHILI SUIT...

Which brings me to another point - Where is the ghili suit that's always existed? But even if we had it we still would be faced with these other issues.

Please, as a community let's bring sniper fun back into the game by letting the developers know they need to be reworked. Not to imitate other large failing games that came long after delta force, but the way delta force has always kept it.

In short:
Remove rocket sniper trail
Remove Glint entirely
ALLOW SCOPE ADJUST FOR DISTANCE (A very basic feature every delta force has had.)
If possible stop red dot from showing up just from the reticle touching them.

This isn't something we all have to just accept, we can make change if we come together and if this request is put in enough. If it makes it to the final game, these changes may never happen.
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Showing 1-15 of 55 comments
actualTurtle Oct 16, 2024 @ 2:16pm 
This is not just a problem in delta force but basically in almost all BF and Cod games and their competitors in more than a decade.
People are crying because they are blind and can't spot their targets so games have become more and more casual and with more assistance with target accusation. Basically stealth is dead and you have tons of features that are there just to reveal where you are.
Auto enemy markers. Scope glints. Enemy silhouette highlights. red dots on the mini map. WH arrows...

In delta force the scope glints are so huge they basically look more like a torch that cover your whole character and makes you a harder target to hit.
I doubt they will remove it because today's gamers got used to seeing snipers without any issue but at the very least they need to make it smaller because right now it is actually a BUFF to snipers...
BionicFreak Oct 16, 2024 @ 2:17pm 
Scope "glint" is the worst thing to have ever happened to PvP shooters.
I hope whoever invented it feels itchy for the rest of his life.
Thorne Oct 16, 2024 @ 2:31pm 
If they mark, then they should also increase the bullet drop, the pre-aiming and reduce the damage of the sniper. What is apparently not understood here is that it is about balancing.

You are currently playing a beta where not all skins are available yet. Has been announced several times via Discord (and yes Discord is the main platform on which they share information)

This is tracing ammunition, not a ‘rocket sniper trail’
Glint can be reduced to the minimum by the attachment and by the way, glint also exist in reality.
The range is customization to a certain degree, depending on which scope you use.
Red Dot is displayed for all classes, this is not limited to the Sniper.
Last edited by Thorne; Oct 16, 2024 @ 2:34pm
Hermit Oct 16, 2024 @ 2:44pm 
I'm old enough to remember the first time sniper scope glints showed up in games.

It was suggested to the devs of Bad Company 2 by a commentator in the forum and they implemented the suggested within few weeks, back when devs actually read the forums.

Ever since then most FPS games had sniper glint.

Back in BF2 you could snipe peoples from bushes all day long and no one would be able to locate you.
actualTurtle Oct 16, 2024 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by Hermit:
I'm old enough to remember the first time sniper scope glints showed up in games.

It was suggested to the devs of Bad Company 2 by a commentator in the forum and they implemented the suggested within few weeks, back when devs actually read the forums.

Ever since then most FPS games had sniper glint.

Back in BF2 you could snipe peoples from bushes all day long and no one would be able to locate you.
It was long time ago but I don't remember having glints in BC2. I do remember when BF3 came and it had glints and I was posting bug reports about the glints being present when you are indoors lol. such a dumb mechanic but the kids like it sadly... in the most recent BF poll people actually voted for the glint to stay
Thorne Oct 16, 2024 @ 3:09pm 
Originally posted by actualTurtle:
Originally posted by Hermit:
I'm old enough to remember the first time sniper scope glints showed up in games.

It was suggested to the devs of Bad Company 2 by a commentator in the forum and they implemented the suggested within few weeks, back when devs actually read the forums.

Ever since then most FPS games had sniper glint.

Back in BF2 you could snipe peoples from bushes all day long and no one would be able to locate you.
It was long time ago but I don't remember having glints in BC2. I do remember when BF3 came and it had glints and I was posting bug reports about the glints being present when you are indoors lol. such a dumb mechanic but the kids like it sadly... in the most recent BF poll people actually voted for the glint to stay

Yes, it was introduced with BF3.

Interesting that you call others "kids" because they like mechanics. You could also just say that the majority of customers or just others want/like glints without being patronising.

We all have our opinions and don't devalue those of others just because we don't like it.
actualTurtle Oct 16, 2024 @ 3:22pm 
Originally posted by Thorne:
Originally posted by actualTurtle:
It was long time ago but I don't remember having glints in BC2. I do remember when BF3 came and it had glints and I was posting bug reports about the glints being present when you are indoors lol. such a dumb mechanic but the kids like it sadly... in the most recent BF poll people actually voted for the glint to stay

Yes, it was introduced with BF3.

Interesting that you call others "kids" because they like mechanics. You could also just say that the majority of customers or just others want/like glints without being patronising.

We all have our opinions and don't devalue those of others just because we don't like it.
well I say it because older gamers are the ones who remember what it is like to play without these features, while younger gamers are basically "born" into it and are too used to it.
Take hitmarkers for example. Do you remember what it was like when they didn't exist in every single game? I remember when this feature started to appear. first is was a small white x when you got a kill. and since then it evolved into this fake dopamine inducer. they just got bigger and bolder. I personally hate it but I find that the newer generation are addicted to it and they don't want it gone...

anyway nothing wrong with being a kid. but it does affect your taste in things.
Last edited by actualTurtle; Oct 16, 2024 @ 3:24pm
tr1p Oct 16, 2024 @ 11:33pm 
Originally posted by Thorne:
If they mark, then they should also increase the bullet drop, the pre-aiming and reduce the damage of the sniper. What is apparently not understood here is that it is about balancing.

You are currently playing a beta where not all skins are available yet. Has been announced several times via Discord (and yes Discord is the main platform on which they share information)

This is tracing ammunition, not a ‘rocket sniper trail’
Glint can be reduced to the minimum by the attachment and by the way, glint also exist in reality.
The range is customization to a certain degree, depending on which scope you use.
Red Dot is displayed for all classes, this is not limited to the Sniper.

You are so far the only person who's actually for these things?

-It is not tracing ammunition. If it were it would have the same tracers as all the other guns. Just like in every delta force there is.

-Glint exists in certain conditions, not all the time in real life. To modern games glint seems to even exist inside buildings. Like their's a flashlight in the scope. Glint needs to go.

-The range isn't customizing at all? How are you saying it is? Every Delta Force has had the ability to increase or decrease the falloff damage. This is a real scope function in real life. As of right now there is NO customization. You can zoom in and out, but that has nothing to do with range customization.

The red dot is an unrealistic assist. I'd expect to see it in a training tutorial or for people who need a significant amount of help. It's NEVER been in Delta Force before. You could see your team mates, but NOT the enemies. There was a degree of stealth.
N7_Shadow Oct 17, 2024 @ 1:15am 
Originally posted by tr1p:
Originally posted by Thorne:
If they mark, then they should also increase the bullet drop, the pre-aiming and reduce the damage of the sniper. What is apparently not understood here is that it is about balancing.

You are currently playing a beta where not all skins are available yet. Has been announced several times via Discord (and yes Discord is the main platform on which they share information)

This is tracing ammunition, not a ‘rocket sniper trail’
Glint can be reduced to the minimum by the attachment and by the way, glint also exist in reality.
The range is customization to a certain degree, depending on which scope you use.
Red Dot is displayed for all classes, this is not limited to the Sniper.

You are so far the only person who's actually for these things?

-It is not tracing ammunition. If it were it would have the same tracers as all the other guns. Just like in every delta force there is.

-Glint exists in certain conditions, not all the time in real life. To modern games glint seems to even exist inside buildings. Like their's a flashlight in the scope. Glint needs to go.

-The range isn't customizing at all? How are you saying it is? Every Delta Force has had the ability to increase or decrease the falloff damage. This is a real scope function in real life. As of right now there is NO customization. You can zoom in and out, but that has nothing to do with range customization.

The red dot is an unrealistic assist. I'd expect to see it in a training tutorial or for people who need a significant amount of help. It's NEVER been in Delta Force before. You could see your team mates, but NOT the enemies. There was a degree of stealth.

I'm likely to be the oldest person in this thread. I'm old enough to remember walking with my family, in a department store, and seeing PONG on a black and white TV, with a sign that said, "Coming Soon." I remember irritating my parents, like every other kid, standing in line to try the demo on said TV, and then not wanting to stop once I got to try it.

I've gamed on everything from the first Atari, to the first Nintendo, to the Sega and Sega CD, to the Commodore 64, etc...

I remember when video arcades came on the scene, with Asteroid, Space invaders, Centipede, Pacman, etc...

I also played the very first online FPS game, Delta Force 2. The only other online FPS game at the time was Quake, which is the game the very first E-Sports superstar, "Fatality" made his name in.

So I can tell you a lot about what has changed since the beginning, to what has never changed.

What has changed? Snipers, to be sure. In DF2, and DFLW, you could snipe from 1K+, but people could also see you, because you showed up as a single black pixel. Good snipers could take out running targets quite easily, from 1K, if there was enough open terrain. Then the cheats came online, and people with LMGs, were technically, were only good for very close range combat, started bunny hopping and taking out the prone snipers with ease.

Late, it was recognized by some games, that the best way to balance snipers, was to change where you were aiming when you brought up the scope. This is actually a good, and very realistic feature. In real life, you don't have an aiming dot, so once you look through your scope, you will need to acquire the sight picture. It's a silly arcade mechanic to allow people to line up the dot on their screen, bring the scope up and fire. Not the least bit realistic.

Now I say this as somebody who excelled in DF2, and DFLW, especially as a Sniper. I used to host tournaments for squads like Firefighters, and I remember the squads starting out using a mix of guns, but eventually using nothing but the LMG. All squads were doing so by the end, because the cheat allowed the CQB character to now use the LMG that had all the best attributes from the other guns, including the scope from the .50cal sniper rifle, no bullet spread, unlimited ammo, the fastest rate of fire, etc.. Prior to the cheat, the CQB character could not control the recoil of the LMG.

Many things changed over time with snipers. Devs always fear it will be too OP. A legit fear as games became more realistic looking with good hiding spots, and very long distances to shoot from...combined with people learning where all the best sniping spots were. So yes, the glint became a way to balance.

Why not just use the offset scope? The mechanic where when you bring up the scope, you aren't aiming where the dot on your screen was pointing? Why not just let let the weapon sway balance? Simple. Cheaters. Cheaters were getting around all of that, and racking up insane scores. 50-0. 102-3, etc...

You can't get around the sniper glint, however. So Devs have constantly tried to find ways to level the playing field between cheaters and legit players. The mechanic of revealing your position allows legit players to often have the same benefit of cheaters with ESP hacks.

Devs have also sought ways to make it near impossible to know if somebody is cheating. All of these mechanics where you can make your weapons quite OP. Is he cheating, using a focus mod, or did he just have the modifications/augments to allow him more accuracy, etc... Seeing somebody doing something out of the norm isn't always accurate for detecting cheaters, as it once was.

And here's the thing that hasn't changed from the very first cheat that came out for DF2. People often have a sense for when others are cheating. Back at that time, you could literally feel the game change with many player adapting the cheats. Like I said, suddenly the highly inaccurate LMGs were sniping prone snipers at 1K+, for instance.

Well, when people would call it out, they were attacked. "Ain't nobody cheating. Get good loser!" I say this as somebody who was so good at DF2 and DFLW, Sweet Sixteen recruited me and many of the other top players to join them in a move to WWIIOL to form a special forces infantry unit on the German side. I was literally given my first true gamer name in DF2 by the opposing team. That name being Sneaky_SoB. The game mode was Search and Destroy, when it happened. They had 10 of 11 of our targets destroyed. We had zero. When the game ended, many on that team at first, thought they won. Then they noticed...no, I had 11 targets destroyed, they had 10. And that's when they game me the name.

But cheating was a problem. People would say, "Nah man, he's my Bro, I know he's not cheating." And then he would get banned for cheating.

Cheaters came in two varieties. Those who cheated in the open, to laugh with glee at the people he triggered, and those who tried to hide their cheating.

Caught in between the legit players and the cheaters, are the Devs, who always try to find ways to limit the damage cheaters do, and hide their cheating at the same time, so the legit players won't know how bad the problem is.

How bad is the problem? Well, a friend asked me to play Escape from Tarkov. I watched him play, and having been an admin, and having tested cheats to know how they work, I recognized cheating going on. So I declined. He said, "Aww come on man, cheating isn't a problem in this game. Come play." Well, then g0at exposed the truth. 40% openly cheating, wiggling back when he wiggled, and even more exhibiting clear signs of cheating, but not returning the wiggle. Yes, it's easy to tell when people are cheating, if you can watch them, either as an Admin, or by also using the ESP cheat, and watching them. You can't hide you cheating, because the cheats give you info and abilities you shouldn't have. If you use them, you out yourself. If you aren't going to use them, you aren't getting the advantage, so why use them. So it's a catch 22.

But yes, the snipe glint was meant to be a balancing mechanic to combat cheaters. you could no longer use invisibility cheats and a sniper rifle...the glint will out you. Same for glitching into the terrain, or a building, and shooting from a position you can't be killed, and nobody can see you. Again, the glint will still give you away, maybe ...especially if you still at least have to poke the rifle through the building or terrain to shoot.


Gamers will never get it through their head that nobody cares where they are at on the leader boards, if they care at all. They only care where they themselves are at. If any of you remember the movie, "The Call Up," the most realistic scene in the movie was when the guy high up on the leader boards, was devastated to learn that nobody knew who he was, or that he was even on the leader boards. His, "Really?" was hilarious.

Anyway, I don't think gamers realize how much their shenanigans affect the development of games. We are seeing this in real time, with Star Citizen, because the development is out in the open. The Devs decide the game play will go a certain way, and then gamers find a way to ruin the game using those mechanics, so they Devs have to go back and fix the mechanics so the gamers can't do it. Perfect example was when tractor beams first came online. People figured out they could hang out in a hangar ...wait for a ship to spawn, then take one of the objects laying around in the hangar, like the medical beds, and use that to literally beat on the person's ship, causing damage. Then of course, they cried when CiG turned off the ability to use the tractor beam in the hangars.

Gamers...their own worst enemies. That will never change. They never learn the lesson that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And the other lesson that finding a glitch and reporting it to the Devs is one thing...using it over and over until it's fixed is completely different, and not cool.


Anyway, this got longer than I intended. It's late and I'm just reminiscing and rambling. Kudos if you read the whole thing. I just wanted you all to know that some of the hand-holdy things you hate, are in fact things Devs do to try to limit how OP the cheaters will be.

Bonus points if any of you remember a short stint by a group in DFLW, called Super Friends, using names like Batman, Superman, Aquaman, etc, and used the cheats to wreck the cheaters glitching under the pyramids to wreck legit players. We always let the legit players kill us and ran the cheaters out of the server. We had them big mad, to the point they created fake screenshots to make it look like we were killing legit players. LOL But people knew. This was after NovaLogic took the cheat programs I sent them, but told me they were no longer policing the game, and that it was now up to the players to do so. So we did, until our move to WWIIOL.
PainKiller Oct 17, 2024 @ 1:52am 
Originally posted by Thorne:
If they mark, then they should also increase the bullet drop, the pre-aiming and reduce the damage of the sniper. What is apparently not understood here is that it is about balancing.

You are currently playing a beta where not all skins are available yet. Has been announced several times via Discord (and yes Discord is the main platform on which they share information)

This is tracing ammunition, not a ‘rocket sniper trail’
Glint can be reduced to the minimum by the attachment and by the way, glint also exist in reality.
The range is customization to a certain degree, depending on which scope you use.
Red Dot is displayed for all classes, this is not limited to the Sniper.
the drop is already huge. go play cod
PainKiller Oct 17, 2024 @ 1:53am 
Originally posted by tr1p:
The biggest issue currently is they put rocket trails on sniper tracers. Every Delta Force has always had regular tracers on them. The whole point of sniping in delta force is all about stealth.

Between a Rocket trail, "Glint" (This really needs to be removed), and red tags exposing your location if the reticle moves over an enemy in hiding it seems they've effectively killed anything to do with sniping in delta force.

If you look at old videos there's plenty of sniper battles people used to have. My longest sniper shot was 700 meters away across an entire map, it took a while to find him, why? because there was no rocket trail, no red dot and he was wearing a GHILI SUIT...

Which brings me to another point - Where is the ghili suit that's always existed? But even if we had it we still would be faced with these other issues.

Please, as a community let's bring sniper fun back into the game by letting the developers know they need to be reworked. Not to imitate other large failing games that came long after delta force, but the way delta force has always kept it.

In short:
Remove rocket sniper trail
Remove Glint entirely
ALLOW SCOPE ADJUST FOR DISTANCE (A very basic feature every delta force has had.)
If possible stop red dot from showing up just from the reticle touching them.

This isn't something we all have to just accept, we can make change if we come together and if this request is put in enough. If it makes it to the final game, these changes may never happen.
id say they better remove that click to aim, no one should be able to reload while in aiming mod. the game feel cheaper and cheaper them more i play .
Thorne Oct 17, 2024 @ 3:46am 
Originally posted by PainKiller:
id say they better remove that click to aim, no one should be able to reload while in aiming mod. the game feel cheaper and cheaper them more i play .

You mean that you reload while aiming? This is done by many armies around the world and has been done by special forces around the world for a very long time.
PainKiller Oct 17, 2024 @ 7:57am 
Originally posted by Thorne:
Originally posted by PainKiller:
id say they better remove that click to aim, no one should be able to reload while in aiming mod. the game feel cheaper and cheaper them more i play .

You mean that you reload while aiming? This is done by many armies around the world and has been done by special forces around the world for a very long time.
but this is a game.
tr1p Oct 17, 2024 @ 12:12pm 
Originally posted by N7_Shadow:
Originally posted by tr1p:

You are so far the only person who's actually for these things?

-It is not tracing ammunition. If it were it would have the same tracers as all the other guns. Just like in every delta force there is.

-Glint exists in certain conditions, not all the time in real life. To modern games glint seems to even exist inside buildings. Like their's a flashlight in the scope. Glint needs to go.

-The range isn't customizing at all? How are you saying it is? Every Delta Force has had the ability to increase or decrease the falloff damage. This is a real scope function in real life. As of right now there is NO customization. You can zoom in and out, but that has nothing to do with range customization.

The red dot is an unrealistic assist. I'd expect to see it in a training tutorial or for people who need a significant amount of help. It's NEVER been in Delta Force before. You could see your team mates, but NOT the enemies. There was a degree of stealth.

I'm likely to be the oldest person in this thread. I'm old enough to remember walking with my family, in a department store, and seeing PONG on a black and white TV, with a sign that said, "Coming Soon." I remember irritating my parents, like every other kid, standing in line to try the demo on said TV, and then not wanting to stop once I got to try it.

I've gamed on everything from the first Atari, to the first Nintendo, to the Sega and Sega CD, to the Commodore 64, etc...

I remember when video arcades came on the scene, with Asteroid, Space invaders, Centipede, Pacman, etc...

I also played the very first online FPS game, Delta Force 2. The only other online FPS game at the time was Quake, which is the game the very first E-Sports superstar, "Fatality" made his name in.

So I can tell you a lot about what has changed since the beginning, to what has never changed.

What has changed? Snipers, to be sure. In DF2, and DFLW, you could snipe from 1K+, but people could also see you, because you showed up as a single black pixel. Good snipers could take out running targets quite easily, from 1K, if there was enough open terrain. Then the cheats came online, and people with LMGs, were technically, were only good for very close range combat, started bunny hopping and taking out the prone snipers with ease.

Late, it was recognized by some games, that the best way to balance snipers, was to change where you were aiming when you brought up the scope. This is actually a good, and very realistic feature. In real life, you don't have an aiming dot, so once you look through your scope, you will need to acquire the sight picture. It's a silly arcade mechanic to allow people to line up the dot on their screen, bring the scope up and fire. Not the least bit realistic.

Now I say this as somebody who excelled in DF2, and DFLW, especially as a Sniper. I used to host tournaments for squads like Firefighters, and I remember the squads starting out using a mix of guns, but eventually using nothing but the LMG. All squads were doing so by the end, because the cheat allowed the CQB character to now use the LMG that had all the best attributes from the other guns, including the scope from the .50cal sniper rifle, no bullet spread, unlimited ammo, the fastest rate of fire, etc.. Prior to the cheat, the CQB character could not control the recoil of the LMG.

Many things changed over time with snipers. Devs always fear it will be too OP. A legit fear as games became more realistic looking with good hiding spots, and very long distances to shoot from...combined with people learning where all the best sniping spots were. So yes, the glint became a way to balance.

Why not just use the offset scope? The mechanic where when you bring up the scope, you aren't aiming where the dot on your screen was pointing? Why not just let let the weapon sway balance? Simple. Cheaters. Cheaters were getting around all of that, and racking up insane scores. 50-0. 102-3, etc...

You can't get around the sniper glint, however. So Devs have constantly tried to find ways to level the playing field between cheaters and legit players. The mechanic of revealing your position allows legit players to often have the same benefit of cheaters with ESP hacks.

Devs have also sought ways to make it near impossible to know if somebody is cheating. All of these mechanics where you can make your weapons quite OP. Is he cheating, using a focus mod, or did he just have the modifications/augments to allow him more accuracy, etc... Seeing somebody doing something out of the norm isn't always accurate for detecting cheaters, as it once was.

And here's the thing that hasn't changed from the very first cheat that came out for DF2. People often have a sense for when others are cheating. Back at that time, you could literally feel the game change with many player adapting the cheats. Like I said, suddenly the highly inaccurate LMGs were sniping prone snipers at 1K+, for instance.

Well, when people would call it out, they were attacked. "Ain't nobody cheating. Get good loser!" I say this as somebody who was so good at DF2 and DFLW, Sweet Sixteen recruited me and many of the other top players to join them in a move to WWIIOL to form a special forces infantry unit on the German side. I was literally given my first true gamer name in DF2 by the opposing team. That name being Sneaky_SoB. The game mode was Search and Destroy, when it happened. They had 10 of 11 of our targets destroyed. We had zero. When the game ended, many on that team at first, thought they won. Then they noticed...no, I had 11 targets destroyed, they had 10. And that's when they game me the name.

But cheating was a problem. People would say, "Nah man, he's my Bro, I know he's not cheating." And then he would get banned for cheating.

Cheaters came in two varieties. Those who cheated in the open, to laugh with glee at the people he triggered, and those who tried to hide their cheating.

Caught in between the legit players and the cheaters, are the Devs, who always try to find ways to limit the damage cheaters do, and hide their cheating at the same time, so the legit players won't know how bad the problem is.

How bad is the problem? Well, a friend asked me to play Escape from Tarkov. I watched him play, and having been an admin, and having tested cheats to know how they work, I recognized cheating going on. So I declined. He said, "Aww come on man, cheating isn't a problem in this game. Come play." Well, then g0at exposed the truth. 40% openly cheating, wiggling back when he wiggled, and even more exhibiting clear signs of cheating, but not returning the wiggle. Yes, it's easy to tell when people are cheating, if you can watch them, either as an Admin, or by also using the ESP cheat, and watching them. You can't hide you cheating, because the cheats give you info and abilities you shouldn't have. If you use them, you out yourself. If you aren't going to use them, you aren't getting the advantage, so why use them. So it's a catch 22.

But yes, the snipe glint was meant to be a balancing mechanic to combat cheaters. you could no longer use invisibility cheats and a sniper rifle...the glint will out you. Same for glitching into the terrain, or a building, and shooting from a position you can't be killed, and nobody can see you. Again, the glint will still give you away, maybe ...especially if you still at least have to poke the rifle through the building or terrain to shoot.


Gamers will never get it through their head that nobody cares where they are at on the leader boards, if they care at all. They only care where they themselves are at. If any of you remember the movie, "The Call Up," the most realistic scene in the movie was when the guy high up on the leader boards, was devastated to learn that nobody knew who he was, or that he was even on the leader boards. His, "Really?" was hilarious.

Anyway, I don't think gamers realize how much their shenanigans affect the development of games. We are seeing this in real time, with Star Citizen, because the development is out in the open. The Devs decide the game play will go a certain way, and then gamers find a way to ruin the game using those mechanics, so they Devs have to go back and fix the mechanics so the gamers can't do it. Perfect example was when tractor beams first came online. People figured out they could hang out in a hangar ...wait for a ship to spawn, then take one of the objects laying around in the hangar, like the medical beds, and use that to literally beat on the person's ship, causing damage. Then of course, they cried when CiG turned off the ability to use the tractor beam in the hangars.

Gamers...their own worst enemies. That will never change. They never learn the lesson that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And the other lesson that finding a glitch and reporting it to the Devs is one thing...using it over and over until it's fixed is completely different, and not cool.


Anyway, this got longer than I intended. It's late and I'm just reminiscing and rambling. Kudos if you read the whole thing. I just wanted you all to know that some of the hand-holdy things you hate, are in fact things Devs do to try to limit how OP the cheaters will be.

Bonus points if any of you remember a short stint by a group in DFLW, called Super Friends, using names like Batman, Superman, Aquaman, etc, and used the cheats to wreck the cheaters glitching under the pyramids to wreck legit players. We always let the legit players kill us and ran the cheaters out of the server. We had them big mad, to the point they created fake screenshots to make it look like we were killing legit players. LOL But people knew. This was after NovaLogic took the cheat programs I sent them, but told me they were no longer policing the game, and that it was now up to the players to do so. So we did, until our move to WWIIOL.


I read the entire post. I understand the point your making. I remember the pyramids.
As someone who knows what it's like though in it's original format, for a moment pretend cheaters don't exist. Would you agree with the changes I'm talking about?
Letting cheaters ultimately dumb down a well crafted game for the sake of balance is crazy, yeah the cheaters exist, but it really isn't that bad. There aren't enough to warrant enough hand-holding that we are now essentially using built in cheats and calling them features.

I believe I got a 1k shot only once across a vast map. I was on a tall mountain and they were too.

I was also really good at shooting with the LMG too. Without scope there were several times I predicted where the person was running and was able to hit them probably 500 or 600m away while I was on a hill and they were on the valley below running - With the LMG - With lag on a 56k modem.. Was really proud of that shot.

Currently my only solution has been using some of the other guns with scopes as sniper rifles so they have regular tracers, though they aren't actual sniper rifles, they get the job done and have still been making long range shots as if it was successfully.
actualTurtle Oct 17, 2024 @ 12:29pm 
Originally posted by N7_Shadow:
Originally posted by tr1p:

You are so far the only person who's actually for these things?

-It is not tracing ammunition. If it were it would have the same tracers as all the other guns. Just like in every delta force there is.

-Glint exists in certain conditions, not all the time in real life. To modern games glint seems to even exist inside buildings. Like their's a flashlight in the scope. Glint needs to go.

-The range isn't customizing at all? How are you saying it is? Every Delta Force has had the ability to increase or decrease the falloff damage. This is a real scope function in real life. As of right now there is NO customization. You can zoom in and out, but that has nothing to do with range customization.

The red dot is an unrealistic assist. I'd expect to see it in a training tutorial or for people who need a significant amount of help. It's NEVER been in Delta Force before. You could see your team mates, but NOT the enemies. There was a degree of stealth.

I'm likely to be the oldest person in this thread. I'm old enough to remember walking with my family, in a department store, and seeing PONG on a black and white TV, with a sign that said, "Coming Soon." I remember irritating my parents, like every other kid, standing in line to try the demo on said TV, and then not wanting to stop once I got to try it.

I've gamed on everything from the first Atari, to the first Nintendo, to the Sega and Sega CD, to the Commodore 64, etc...

I remember when video arcades came on the scene, with Asteroid, Space invaders, Centipede, Pacman, etc...

I also played the very first online FPS game, Delta Force 2. The only other online FPS game at the time was Quake, which is the game the very first E-Sports superstar, "Fatality" made his name in.

So I can tell you a lot about what has changed since the beginning, to what has never changed.

What has changed? Snipers, to be sure. In DF2, and DFLW, you could snipe from 1K+, but people could also see you, because you showed up as a single black pixel. Good snipers could take out running targets quite easily, from 1K, if there was enough open terrain. Then the cheats came online, and people with LMGs, were technically, were only good for very close range combat, started bunny hopping and taking out the prone snipers with ease.

Late, it was recognized by some games, that the best way to balance snipers, was to change where you were aiming when you brought up the scope. This is actually a good, and very realistic feature. In real life, you don't have an aiming dot, so once you look through your scope, you will need to acquire the sight picture. It's a silly arcade mechanic to allow people to line up the dot on their screen, bring the scope up and fire. Not the least bit realistic.

Now I say this as somebody who excelled in DF2, and DFLW, especially as a Sniper. I used to host tournaments for squads like Firefighters, and I remember the squads starting out using a mix of guns, but eventually using nothing but the LMG. All squads were doing so by the end, because the cheat allowed the CQB character to now use the LMG that had all the best attributes from the other guns, including the scope from the .50cal sniper rifle, no bullet spread, unlimited ammo, the fastest rate of fire, etc.. Prior to the cheat, the CQB character could not control the recoil of the LMG.

Many things changed over time with snipers. Devs always fear it will be too OP. A legit fear as games became more realistic looking with good hiding spots, and very long distances to shoot from...combined with people learning where all the best sniping spots were. So yes, the glint became a way to balance.

Why not just use the offset scope? The mechanic where when you bring up the scope, you aren't aiming where the dot on your screen was pointing? Why not just let let the weapon sway balance? Simple. Cheaters. Cheaters were getting around all of that, and racking up insane scores. 50-0. 102-3, etc...

You can't get around the sniper glint, however. So Devs have constantly tried to find ways to level the playing field between cheaters and legit players. The mechanic of revealing your position allows legit players to often have the same benefit of cheaters with ESP hacks.

Devs have also sought ways to make it near impossible to know if somebody is cheating. All of these mechanics where you can make your weapons quite OP. Is he cheating, using a focus mod, or did he just have the modifications/augments to allow him more accuracy, etc... Seeing somebody doing something out of the norm isn't always accurate for detecting cheaters, as it once was.

And here's the thing that hasn't changed from the very first cheat that came out for DF2. People often have a sense for when others are cheating. Back at that time, you could literally feel the game change with many player adapting the cheats. Like I said, suddenly the highly inaccurate LMGs were sniping prone snipers at 1K+, for instance.

Well, when people would call it out, they were attacked. "Ain't nobody cheating. Get good loser!" I say this as somebody who was so good at DF2 and DFLW, Sweet Sixteen recruited me and many of the other top players to join them in a move to WWIIOL to form a special forces infantry unit on the German side. I was literally given my first true gamer name in DF2 by the opposing team. That name being Sneaky_SoB. The game mode was Search and Destroy, when it happened. They had 10 of 11 of our targets destroyed. We had zero. When the game ended, many on that team at first, thought they won. Then they noticed...no, I had 11 targets destroyed, they had 10. And that's when they game me the name.

But cheating was a problem. People would say, "Nah man, he's my Bro, I know he's not cheating." And then he would get banned for cheating.

Cheaters came in two varieties. Those who cheated in the open, to laugh with glee at the people he triggered, and those who tried to hide their cheating.

Caught in between the legit players and the cheaters, are the Devs, who always try to find ways to limit the damage cheaters do, and hide their cheating at the same time, so the legit players won't know how bad the problem is.

How bad is the problem? Well, a friend asked me to play Escape from Tarkov. I watched him play, and having been an admin, and having tested cheats to know how they work, I recognized cheating going on. So I declined. He said, "Aww come on man, cheating isn't a problem in this game. Come play." Well, then g0at exposed the truth. 40% openly cheating, wiggling back when he wiggled, and even more exhibiting clear signs of cheating, but not returning the wiggle. Yes, it's easy to tell when people are cheating, if you can watch them, either as an Admin, or by also using the ESP cheat, and watching them. You can't hide you cheating, because the cheats give you info and abilities you shouldn't have. If you use them, you out yourself. If you aren't going to use them, you aren't getting the advantage, so why use them. So it's a catch 22.

But yes, the snipe glint was meant to be a balancing mechanic to combat cheaters. you could no longer use invisibility cheats and a sniper rifle...the glint will out you. Same for glitching into the terrain, or a building, and shooting from a position you can't be killed, and nobody can see you. Again, the glint will still give you away, maybe ...especially if you still at least have to poke the rifle through the building or terrain to shoot.


Gamers will never get it through their head that nobody cares where they are at on the leader boards, if they care at all. They only care where they themselves are at. If any of you remember the movie, "The Call Up," the most realistic scene in the movie was when the guy high up on the leader boards, was devastated to learn that nobody knew who he was, or that he was even on the leader boards. His, "Really?" was hilarious.

Anyway, I don't think gamers realize how much their shenanigans affect the development of games. We are seeing this in real time, with Star Citizen, because the development is out in the open. The Devs decide the game play will go a certain way, and then gamers find a way to ruin the game using those mechanics, so they Devs have to go back and fix the mechanics so the gamers can't do it. Perfect example was when tractor beams first came online. People figured out they could hang out in a hangar ...wait for a ship to spawn, then take one of the objects laying around in the hangar, like the medical beds, and use that to literally beat on the person's ship, causing damage. Then of course, they cried when CiG turned off the ability to use the tractor beam in the hangars.

Gamers...their own worst enemies. That will never change. They never learn the lesson that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And the other lesson that finding a glitch and reporting it to the Devs is one thing...using it over and over until it's fixed is completely different, and not cool.


Anyway, this got longer than I intended. It's late and I'm just reminiscing and rambling. Kudos if you read the whole thing. I just wanted you all to know that some of the hand-holdy things you hate, are in fact things Devs do to try to limit how OP the cheaters will be.

Bonus points if any of you remember a short stint by a group in DFLW, called Super Friends, using names like Batman, Superman, Aquaman, etc, and used the cheats to wreck the cheaters glitching under the pyramids to wreck legit players. We always let the legit players kill us and ran the cheaters out of the server. We had them big mad, to the point they created fake screenshots to make it look like we were killing legit players. LOL But people knew. This was after NovaLogic took the cheat programs I sent them, but told me they were no longer policing the game, and that it was now up to the players to do so. So we did, until our move to WWIIOL.


Dear brother what the hell are you yapping about? Every game has glint these days. It has nothing to do with cheats. It is simply a mechanic to NERF sniping. No more no less.
Games should not put in gameplay mechanics because of cheaters. It is a bad practice that ruin the game. Like every mechanic introduced to tarkov to fight RMT alway did more harm to the legit players while cheaters kept on going.
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Date Posted: Oct 16, 2024 @ 1:58pm
Posts: 55