What's the problem with Body Swap mode?

[CapStee]

I get that it's made to pander to a group that I'm not particularly fond of, and I think YCG is foolish for trying to please them (I consider it a lost cause), but you can just pretend it's not there, if you prefer. And actually, I think it would be pretty funny to mess with Shovel Knight's sexuality.

I don't agree with YCG's reasoning for adding it. I definitely think it's a problem that they felt like they had to do this. But Body Swap mode itself seems harmless. Why is there so much drama surrounding it? This forum is already becoming cancerous with all the immature price complaints (I'd be so happy if just one of those five threads was written by someone rational), so it's not like it could get much worse if it gets filled with SJWs.

Anyway, let me know what you think.

I had an answer written here, but then I realized that with how tricky this subject is, the supposed answer has been constantly tweaked. So there will no longer be one written here. This is probably for the best anyway.

[TheLightningYu | Mike]

The whole Topic goes deeper, as you might imagine.

As example, let's say Dotnod would implement Bodyswap in Life is Strange or Crystal Dynamics do that in Tomb Raider? Gamer want consistency in the Characters they play. We want Characters to define them, or if there is any kind of undefined custom character, to be defined by themself. Would TR the same, with an Male Lars Croft? Nope, because then we would have Indiana Jones or Uncharted. The Story and such would be handled differently. Or Life is Strange - an Part of this Game is about an Girl-Teen-Drama - this whole Story wouldn't work in the Opposite way, atleast not if they simply swap genders - you would have to re-write the whole Story and even then there isn't an guarantee that it woudl have the same Impact.

Now you may argue: "But Shovel Knight isn't nearly as storydriven as these". That's Correct, but Shovel Knight itself is already an iconic Character/Figure, that's why it's sad they handle him with such an disrespect(as well Shieldknight). A Part what made him an Character, and not an Hollow empty Vessel, is gone now due he lost a bit of his identity.

The Second Aspect, which is even more Critical - how much influence Feminism, SJW etc have into Game-Development. And that's dangerous as well. Feminists critisize Nintendo because Peach is weak and the Damsel in Distress. They argue like Nintendo want to show the Rest of the World, "Hey look - woman are weak and need to be rescued - they "are" the Damsel in Distress", while Nintendo actually crafted one of the strongest female lead Characters with Samus Aran. What this People won't understand is, that Peach isn't weak because she is a "Woman" - but moreover because she is as a "Person" Weak. Not everyone can be strong, not every Man is strong, and mostly not in all aspects. That's what us make "Humans" because of our strenghts and weaknesses - and that's something which strenghten us, because we can help each other.

But this is where the radical Aspect of Feminism gets blind and dumb every decision made by an Male to an Politic Decision to weaken the Status of Females. They focus so dramatically on this Genderdebatting, react of each aspect so overly sensitive, they have no objective and fair jdugment anymore. And in Videogames this means - developers get more and more limited. Look how many Japanese Games, mostly on Nintendo-Side get censored, due how Feminism reacts about oversexualizing. They take away the freedom of Artists do design Characters how they want - and even go further - reduce Developers to an Mysogyn and Womanhater - while they not even know how they handle Woman in Reallife.

I don't know, what the Reason for YCG was, to implement Genderswap. It bugs me, not as much that i boycott them, but still to critisize it. Because for me it means, they have not an clear vision for the Characters in the World of Shovel Knight - because with this Body-Swap Shovel-Knight as Character/Person have gotten replacable...

That's how i see this topic.

[CapStee]

Wow, uh... I'm not sure how to respond to all of that, but I'll try.

As far as it taking away Shovel Knight's character, I can sorta see that, especially since it's now possible to mess with Shovel Knight's sexuality, as I said, but that doesn't bother me. I do see the problem with taking shield Knight's character away, though, since their purpose with her was to break the stereotype that women are helpless, and now Shield Knight can be a man, so they basically took away one purpose in favor of a much stupider one.

Also, I agree that it is bad to adhere to feminists and all those other people in videogames, but what I'm concerned with is people refunding the game because of Body Swap. That doesn't seem like it will do anything, all those people are really doing is giving up a great game for a reason that, on their own, seems kinda petty. I understand what you're saying, though.

[racknae]

Have you ever considered that the developers just included Body/Gender Swap as a feature because it was something they actually wanted to do?

[CapStee]

Originally posted by The ███ Guy:

Have you ever considered that the developers just included Body/Gender Swap as a feature because it was something they actually wanted to do?

Yeah, but that's not really what their website says.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Adding body swap later on when it could been implemented at the get go? This is catering, and I love the game. But I could not care more. I just hope it does not get even worse than it already is.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Marcus Butthurticus:

Adding body swap later on when it could been implemented at the get go? This is catering, and I love the game. But I could not care more. I just hope it does not get even worse than it already is.

There was a lot of work and thought that went into it, so I wouldn't expect it right away, but yes, it is catering.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

But yeah, Shield Knight is a female who saves Shovel Knight, probably more than once to.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Marcus Butthurticus:

But yeah, Shield Knight is a female who saves Shovel Knight, probably more than once to.

Yeah, they were trying to break a female stereotype by using a character who is no longer canonically female... I don't agree with their priorities, but whatever.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Mighty strange that one! I prefer the classic story in Shovel Knight.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Marcus Butthurticus:

Mighty strange that one! I prefer the classic story in Shovel Knight.

I'm not a story person, so if the story is about a lesbian knight who's attracted to a male, then whatever. But as far as trying to make a serious message, the message of the original was much better.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Originally posted by SuperStee:

Originally posted by Marcus Butthurticus:

Mighty strange that one! I prefer the classic story in Shovel Knight.

I'm not a story person, so if the story is about a lesbian knight who's attracted to a male, then whatever. But as far as trying to make a serious message, the message of the original was much better.

A very valid point. The original idea of Shovel Knight is smarter. I honestly think it shows that Shovel and Shield need each others to overcome their enemies. They make the perfect team, where Shield is the strong and protective (against harm) one.

[Termix]

What most developers don't understand is, that a good story has no need for features such as gender swap.
If you have well written characters (Tomb Raider/The Last of Us/Walking Dead) the gender doesn't matter anymore - as it should be.

Especially in games with generic stories (it's okay, since those games focus on gameplay) such as Shovel Knight, Super Mario etc. it is ridiculous to sacrifice development time to please a small vocal crowd.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Termix:

What most developers don't understand is, that a good story has no need for features such as gender swap.
If you have well written characters (Tomb Raider/The Last of Us/Walking Dead) the gender doesn't matter anymore - as it should be.

Especially in games with generic stories (it's okay, since those games focus on gameplay) such as Shovel Knight, Super Mario etc. it is ridiculous to sacrifice development time to please a small vocal crowd.

The thing is, they have the option to please
a) good feminists (as they were doing)
or b) SJWs (as they are now doing)

They're both small crowds, but it didn't take development time to do the former.

As for me, I don't really think videogame characters even need genders. And for that matter, I don't even think videogames need stories. I can make up my own headcanon for both, if the game needs it (which it never does, but it can be fun anyway). But now the genders of the Shovel Knight characters ARE up to the player, and the only difference is that it actually makes them look different... I think it would have been more efficient to just make all the characters gender-neutral. All this does is takes away the need for imagination. The only things you can imagine now are... not appealing to me.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Originally posted by Porkfried:

Eh, I mean, certain sectors of the internet are all in rage mode searching for any sign of "an SJW" to attack. *yawn*

Personally, I feel like they're just big Fionna and Cake fans. I think it's that simple.

Well, SJW of the worst kind want to destroy things not fiting their very narrow ideology and views of life. It is not strange that there is a reaction to it. All extreme groups get reactions back and some of those reactions will be extreme aswell. Most of those SJW seem to lack interest in gaming overal aswell.

Never heard of Fionna and Cake but hey, Cake is good.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Marcus Butthurticus:

Originally posted by Porkfried:

Eh, I mean, certain sectors of the internet are all in rage mode searching for any sign of "an SJW" to attack. *yawn*

Personally, I feel like they're just big Fionna and Cake fans. I think it's that simple.

Well, SJW of the worst kind want to destroy things not fiting their very narrow ideology and views of life. It is not strange that there is a reaction to it. All extreme groups get reactions back and some of those reactions will be extreme aswell. Most of those SJW seem to lack interest in gaming overal aswell.

Never heard of Fionna and Cake but hey, Cake is good.

Normally I'd expect a reaction to an SJW attack, and I would dislike that thought. But here, as I've said, I don't think they could do much harm. The fact that they're usually disinterested in gaming also reduces the chance that they'll find this game... but that means YCG's efforts were just about useless. Gender issues are weeeeeeird.