If you hate the price, look at their actual plans

[Shadowspaz]

Almost every argument I've seen about the price is either built around "It's too old to cost this much" or "I don't want the extra content."

To people making the first argument- There's no helping you. But for the second complaint: http://yachtclubgames.com/2017/01/switch-up/

Originally posted by YCG:

Soon, the game you now know as Shovel Knight will become Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove. When that happens, you’ll also have new options to purchase each campaign as separate, standalone games on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, PC/Mac/Linux, and Nintendo Switch

They have explicitly stated that we will have each campaign available separately. If you don't want the extra content, I'd expect you'd be able to buy the original game for around 10 bucks. If you like it, you should be able to upgrade to Treasure Trove for the remaining price, or something similar. We have had Treasure Trove for the better part of a year. We do not have these separate campaigns.

Ask Yacht Club Games why. Let them know there's an interest in this.

It'll likely have a better result than complaining about why a three-year-old game still costs money.

[CapStee]

Yeah, there's no helping the people who will make that first argument. The game isn't even done yet, so how can it be old? It's practically still a fetus! A really awesome fetus.

I'd love to see them make a petition or something for YCG to take a break from their SJW education and make those sperate campaigns so this forum can hopefully have a state of relative peace, and show that they're willing to take action and be civil rather than just complain and pirate the game.

[Nice]

I don't get it. This topic is from 13 hours ago.
They anounced said plans when they anounced treasure trove.
To this day no separate campaings.
Maybe the day treasure trove is selling on the hundreds or lower then Shovel Knight standalone (and just SK, not the rest) as separate campaing could lure then as possible higher profit. Then, after some time at that they could think about releasing the other campaings.

They don't care. They said that to defend the premium full package. And they can safely make that promise because it isn't hard to make the standalones (not really os as hard as they make it seem). - so some day surely they will make that. No hurry.

As long as someone there thinks that SK standalone could compete, lowering sales of the full package, it won't happen. I don't know hows the hierarchy on their studio but i imagine if one member on the board says 'come on guys, not yet' its enought. Theres this thing called long tail on digital products and as long as they see the treasure trove tail bringing some returns they won't bother with standalones. Since they plan on extra content down the line... anyone waiting for the standalone (like me) should better forget it, instead of waiting. We're talking years here, probably 2 more.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Walken on sunshine:

I don't get it. This topic is from 13 hours ago.
They anounced said plans when they anounced treasure trove.
To this day no separate campaings.
Maybe the day treasure trove is selling on the hundreds or lower then Shovel Knight standalone (and just SK, not the rest) as separate campaing could lure then as possible higher profit. Then, after some time at that they could think about releasing the other campaings.

They don't care. They said that to defend the premium full package. And they can safely make that promise because it isn't hard to make the standalones (not really os as hard as they make it seem). - so some day surely they will make that. No hurry.

As long as someone there thinks that SK standalone could compete, lowering sales of the full package, it won't happen. I don't know hows the hierarchy on their studio but i imagine if one member on the board says 'come on guys, not yet' its enought. Theres this thing called long tail on digital products and as long as they see the treasure trove tail bringing some returns they won't bother with standalones. Since they plan on extra content down the line... anyone waiting for the standalone (like me) should better forget it, instead of waiting. We're talking years here, probably 2 more.

Stop complaining and making assumptions. Do something about it so you can either fix the problem or at least have proof that they're not just assumptions.

[Shadowspaz]

That's exactly my point. They announced that separate campaigns would be coming at the same time as Treasure Trove. That is a fact.

Another fact is that that didn't happen. Any reasoning why is just speculation.

So hold them to what they said. Start voicing a desire for the separate campaigns, rather than all these topics of "The game costs too much money." I don't think that's the issue at all.

The issue is that they said they would release alternatives, and then they didn't. Hold them to that.

[CapStee]

Yes, that is the issue most of these people have, and it's certainly valid. They'd just rather complain about the price for...some reason.

[Shadowspaz]

I guess I can understand the price argument. It costs $10 more than it did at launch, but also has triple (soon to be quadruple) the content, so... The issue just comes back around to separating out that content.

Instead of people asking for the separate campaigns, they want all the content for cheap, which just comes across as disingenuous.

[Doktor Mandrake]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/589510/Shovel_Knight_Specter_of_Torment/

Best one in the game so far anyway

[CapStee]

Originally posted by Doktor Mandrake:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/589510/Shovel_Knight_Specter_of_Torment/

Best one in the game so far anyway

Considering that the campaigns are all so different (and many people do consider this one to be the best), it is a bit strange that people would rather try the original first instead of this one. But still, YCG should stay true to its word.

[Nice]

Originally posted by CapStee:

Stop complaining and making assumptions. Do something about it so you can either fix the problem or at least have proof that they're not just assumptions.

Fix how? About complaining on another topic i went on to say the problem wasn't the price but the full package(i want the original as it was available before). By chance i saw this one saying this as if it was something new and felt the need to point out how long ago they made the promise.
Just now i realize it may have been from some mistranslation. My english is pretty good and i rarely miss nowadays but 'actual, actually' rings close 'atual' in portuguese wich, while it shares meaning in some rare cases, its more like 'currently, right now'. My mistake, i guessed he was saying they just anounced it.

About assumpitons...
I suck at programing, still learning and getting better (my field is design) but i get development. From jams to a team project on my university to me learning a number of engines (unity, unreal, game maker, construct 2).
I can't for the life of me see how 'hard', complex or time consuming it could be to re-package/compile a build with only Shovel Knight.

Heck, the expansions are all separate campaigns. They don't even need to delete anything- you change a flag, change the menu. Done. Ive seen students do more complex things in a hurry during a 24 hours jam.

But alas we don't even need to go into that- they HAVE IT. Its the build that existed before the dlc- no work needed, its already done. Its as easy as going to old files or some disc version (bet they had one) and uploading it. Or telling steam to put that package from before up again with a new id(separate game).

Thats why theres no 'assumption'. The only reason for not doing so is a business decision.
I have been waiting for some cuts on some games like Battle Brothers and Astroneer (and i may be buying BB this sale)- they raised price and are standing firm to lowering prices and i back that. Indies currently are selling thenselves too low too quickly wich on my view is damaging their own market.
But you won't see me complaining there- because they didn't do what shovel did.

All i wanted was SK- not treasure trove. They could have kept the price as it was for SK(only) without cutting heavy sales. And all i say is stating what its clear- it is a business decision from then. They're free to do theirs, im free to disagree.

Me and others being vocal is the only way they might shift strategies sooner then later- we represent potential customers they're losing, not reaching. Every sale i remeber SK, see SK not being available and comment on some topic. They can easily see who buy, the only way for then to notice who doesn't and why is being vocal.

...About Specter...

I saw the specter being released standalone. One of my favorite reviews of it, quite in depth (can't recall the video now) confirmed and explained what i suspect and saw in some other reviews- it is a more hardcore experience and quite different then playing SK. Thats quite brilliant for a expansion and part of its praise is how elegantly they change things and how different specter feels compared to Sk...

I can't compare if i haven't played SK. I can't savour the changes. My first experience will be completely different. I may even find SK easier then i would getting it after Specter. Also specter is some character(boss if im not mistaken) from the evil side- another story- one i won't grasp the whole 'other side of the coin' to understand a villain - and frankly what hyped me was playing and seeing the story behind that sad knight with a shovel to rescue or avenge his companion (i don't know if shes dead and please don't spoil it to me).
That, from the trailer that got me hyped. That from the title of the game. Not freaking scepter whoever who i don't care (yet) like those who finished the first game would be interested.

I don't own a playstation so im out of the loop regarding Uncharted but i know about the latest release. Its like telling someone to play the standalone story with the girls before any Uncharted. No thanks.

And the treasure trove is like saying to someone to buy all Uncharteds beforehand just so you can play the first one.

[CapStee]

I agree, it would probably be very easy to seperate the campaigns. I seriously don't know why they don't do it, but it might have something to do with everyone wanting them seperated just so happening to prefer to complain about the price (aside from you, you seem fine). Or maybe you're right and they actually don't care. I still consider that an assumption (since there do seem to be alternative possibilities), but it's not entirely invalid. I also understand your reasoning for wanting to play Shovel of Hope first, I should have considered the difficulty. I was a little rude at first since I thought you were just another price-complainer, so sorry about that.

[Shadowspaz]

Regarding the definition of "actual," the last we are aware, these were their current plans. Not new, but "existing currently." They are the "actual plans," in that they were explicitly stated by the developers. They "exist in fact," which is another definition of "actual."

Speculation or not, easy or not, they have said that they will do something, and then they did not do it. As far as I can tell, they have not communicated any change to the plan, either.

Making excuses for them doesn't help anything, and because of their lack of communication, these excuses are just speculation anyway, meaning they cannot be backed up by fact.

The fact is that they mentioned plans for a major change, and did not follow through.

All three of us are on the same side, too. My only point with this thread is to hopefully change the mindset of "your game costs too much money" into "you aren't offering what you promised." It makes no difference to me, really- I own Treasure Trove on three platforms. I just want to see this community rally for something realistic, based off of the dev's explicit actions.

[spooney]

People often want more for less using the age old excuse " it's too old to cost this much " , especially when it concerns the entitled pc community.

[CapStee]

Originally posted by κz | spooney︼:

People often want more for less using the age old excuse " it's too old to cost this much " , especially when it concerns the entitled pc community.

Hey, don't bash our master-race community like that! *jk*

I can see what you mean.

[Nice]

Good seeing reasonable people talking over the internet for a change.

The main issue i see for all sides is the currently/actual (aha, learned it!) undervaluation of games on all levels, indies being the most affected. I don't blame indie developers for selling thenselves low (despite they doing it)- its more out of necessity. There isn't really any big improvement from todays games to some years old game and when a small team pixelated game is costing more then say a triple A with expansions like Dishonored(1) being much cheaper then its hard to compete- not to mention the dense red waters of the indie market with too many titles competing.

Users are to blame only to a extent. No one have to cash to play it all- heck, i once saw about some guy famous for trying to own or play every game on steam... impossible. We only have so much time and so much money- and i can't blame people who favor a well rounded/awarded AAA game over some novelty indie that while good isn't as full featured. Theres many indies i love but just a handfull are true masterpieces no one should miss- anything below a masterpiece have a way harder time competing, needs to lower prices even further and lower the bar for the genre and gaming. Its human nature and even unconscious going against the perceived value and standards. Every sale i use to buy a cart of games and while half or more of it are mostly indies i mix-up because there are good AAA games cheaper that also lure me.

I do get some of the anger towards pricing, its hard to argue about value when the newly released and much Hyped Cuphead is cheaper then a game released some years ago (at least in BRL Cuphead is cheaper this sale).

I only blame consumers when they feel entitled to high cuts as if 50-90% off were some kind of obligation that games on steam should moraly concede to during sales. Not to mention being outright rude.

But id take it a little bit lighter. I was once mad too- not about the price but for feeling betrayed- ive missed the news about the incoming treasure trove and saved a lot for a sale doing pre-planed wishlist and everything by order and such. Shovel Knight was on the top, and i wouldn't mind buying it on a lesser cut then it had been or whatever. After a year dry on gaming it was all ready and the only game i was sure to get was shovel... and then the sale came and i discovered treasure trove and the price doubled or something with obligatory dlc.

That year(last year? i don't recall) i got really mad. I wasn't rude (and being mad doesn't justify some topics i see) but was bitter on every place i comented, argumenting why i and others were mad and saying pretty much the same (the game issue, not the price issue).

Id take a bit lighter on some users (not the cussing or trolls) because gaming is a passionate thing, its pretty much 'making desires real' - and to some extent devs/publishers are acountable to being nice to customers and potential customers. It did felt like a betrayal or slap to many, like one day seeing a product on the shelves and the next all removed and only available inside a bigger shinier costlier box with a message 'should have bought earlier' 'don't like it wait some years'.

Nothing on the levels of EA, Bungie and such but that isn't good pr and is bound to some reactions. People get mad when they care. If force awakens were just available on the cinemas when released- similar effect. 'Didn't watch? Each episode will be available for rent after episode 9, or you can buy the premium dvd trove- it includes episode 7, 8 and the future content of episode 9, of course joustly priced for the 3'.

[CapStee]

Yeah, I guess I can understand the bitterness of having to pay more because you didn't buy it earlier. It's still a good deal though. By the way, I thought of something. People seem like they want to treat Shovel of Hope like a paid demo. What if there was a free demo? Eh? Think people would like that? Think it would sedate some of them?