Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove

Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove

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Dark Reize needs to be changed.
"The boss programmer should be able to defeat the enemy without taking a single hit. That's how you know the boss was developed correctly, and it clearly demonstrates signals for how to defeat it."
- Koji Igarashi, creator of the Metroidvania

With this in mind, I attempted to beat Dark Reize without curios or damage for half an hour. It proved impossible. In fact, I could only dodge one of his attacks a tenth of the time. And the ones I can avoid only worked half the time. It's not that I couldn't beat him, I just had difficulty dodging his attacks.

So I looked it up and found this. Turns out, it's possible to beat him damageless with judicious usage of Judgement Rush. Which is like cheesing Shovel Knight bosses with the Phase Locket.

The main problem here is his running slash. It has a hitbox the size of a minivan and can reach you when you're halfway up a wall. If you run from him and jump before he slashes, you can avoid this attack half the time. And if you dash at him while he is slashing you can avoid this attack half the time. Overall, it's very inconsistent.

The other problem is his wave-producing boomerang attack. If it lands in the center it takes up the entire field. If it lands in a corner it pins you down. Notice how in that video Gellot uses the Judgement Rush as a panic button because he can't avoid both of these attacks at once.

The solution here is to slightly reduce the size of the slashing hitbox and to modify the boomerang beams (smaller hitbox or no wall-climbing). If this were done, these attacks could be consistently avoided with enough skill. As-is, this boss is unreasonably difficult to fight for something encountered halfway through the game.

If you want an example of a fair boss fight, take Propeller Knight. He is very challenging (and infuriatingly so) but with enough practice can be beaten without damage or gimmicks. This is true for every boss I've fought up to this point but Dark Reize has broken this pattern.

If you disagree with me, then I implore you to try it yourself. Sit down and try to beat this boss without damage or gimmicks.
Last edited by DragonDePlatino; Apr 27, 2017 @ 10:01pm
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
Shucks Apr 28, 2017 @ 9:50am 
Honestly you can beat him without getting hit using the Plume, Judgement Rush, Barrier Lantern, or Chronos Coin. Not sure why it's a big deal he can hurt you otherwise. If he's easily defeated on NG+ with limited health and darkness mixed together than it really isn't a big deal or worth complaining about. Especially when there are harder bosses on NG+ like enchantress or the floating Black Knight fight.

Also propeller knight IMO is one of the easiest of the campaign, kind of a bad comparison.
Mr.R Apr 28, 2017 @ 10:55am 
Originally posted by Shucks:
Honestly you can beat him without getting hit using the Plume, Judgement Rush, Barrier Lantern, or Chronos Coin. Not sure why it's a big deal he can hurt you otherwise. If he's easily defeated on NG+ with limited health and darkness mixed together than it really isn't a big deal or worth complaining about. Especially when there are harder bosses on NG+ like enchantress or the floating Black Knight fight.

Also propeller knight IMO is one of the easiest of the campaign, kind of a bad comparison.
He was talking about how the boss was impossible to beat without curios.
DragonDePlatino Apr 28, 2017 @ 12:17pm 
Oh, I'm not saying he's impossible without curios. Far from it.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=914538326
I just feel his attacks are unfair because they cannot be consistently avoided without curios. After half an hour of practice I avoided his boomerang wave beam attack twice and got hit at least once every other time it was used.

The player is not guaranteed to have the Plume, Judgement Rush, Barrier Lantern or Chronos Coin at this point. In fact, I didn't have any of those. And I won't for my Low% run, either.
Last edited by DragonDePlatino; Apr 28, 2017 @ 12:19pm
Halfshell Apr 28, 2017 @ 5:50pm 
I have a feeling its "possible" to beat it damageless. But would require a lot of looking into strats and even more grinding. I remember dodging his running slash about 3/4ths of the time if I ran at him and backed off with a jump right before he would slash. But its very hard to intuit how close to get before you back off. I probably wouldn't be that consisent if I did it now for example. I agree with you if the Dev's intention is to make bosses possible to beat damageless consistently with no Curios.
Last edited by Halfshell; Apr 28, 2017 @ 5:51pm
Darkest King Apr 28, 2017 @ 9:05pm 
Yeeaaah Dark Reize is REALLY f**king hard to beat without taking some damage. He moves erratically and his attacks have very wide hitboxes that basically demand you see them coming seconds beforehand.

Still... I bet it's POSSIBLE...
Mr.R Apr 28, 2017 @ 10:13pm 
The designer's knew this which is why they give you the will skull in the rematch. It's a little unfair really I struggled against this boss and only got past him with Will skull spamming.I can't imagine him on a no curio run.
Last edited by Mr.R; Apr 28, 2017 @ 11:02pm
Mr.R Apr 28, 2017 @ 10:23pm 
The best thing to do is to avoid him until he's hovering near the wall during his wall climbing boomerang attack when it's shooting out a bunch of rocks and Dash slash as fast as possible.
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Date Posted: Apr 27, 2017 @ 9:57pm
Posts: 7