High quality grenade launchers

[progad]

What are the characteristics of high quality grenade launchers (120+)? The unique Thumper has 100-200 damage with no strength requirements and a very fast reload. Are there more cost-effective options?

[The Great Cornholio]

use an adrenaline, fire a magazine fed grenade launcher twice then throw a flashbang, next round fire twice and throw a frag

[progad]

Originally posted by The Great Cornholio:

use an adrenaline, fire a magazine fed grenade launcher twice then throw a flashbang, next round fire twice and throw a frag

I have no problem with tactics. I just want to understand how much strength to take for this weapon. Do you really need anything other than Thumper?

[The Great Cornholio]

5 str for 25mm launchers - not worth it
6 str for 40mm launchers - double max damage of 25mm

grenade weight is also significant, about a pound for every 3

so any assault rifle build with high strength can carry a grenade launcher with no changes

thumper you're only going to fire once per round or once per battle, it's probably not going to be your primary weapon

[ptirodaktill]

Refubrished thrumper oneshot many things with frag grenade. With PTC you can bang, reload and bang again. Its a devastating weapon actualy .=)

[The_Finish]

Originally posted by progad:

What are the characteristics of high quality grenade launchers (120+)? The unique Thumper has 100-200 damage with no strength requirements and a very fast reload. Are there more cost-effective options?

The Thumper is very good but it's the least AP efficient out of all of them if you want to use it as your main weapon, since each shot is effectively 40 AP (25 shot + 15 reload) compared to the 35 of other 40mm grenade launchers. On the other hand it has no STR requirement and you find it super early on, so it makes for a great sidearm for other builds; especially since refurbishing it only costs charons.

Other 40mm grenade launchers require 6 Str (4 shots, 6 shots) or 7 (8 shots), except the Milcore, which is STR 5 for 6 shots and Str 6 for 8 shots when refurbished. 25 mm GLs are STR 5/6/7/8 for 6/8/10/12 magazine.

I recently did a GL build and frankly 25mm GLs are just not worth it. They cost 10 AP less than the 40mm but they do a LOT less damage, they have less AoE and they also have worse special ammo. Incendiaries are OK but Stun grenades are poop, especially compared to Thermobaric/Cluster.

I honestly didn't find crafting the GLs themselves all that worth it. You get more damage for sure, but they do such ludicrous damage already that, at least on Normal, you end up with a ton of overkill. The only REAL advantage was that you could mount airburst scopes on them, but I did so little jet-ski to jet-ski combat that it never came into play. All the other upgrades just increase precision, which is nice but not amazing. The Milcore will serve you more than well enough, though you need to do a bunch of the Arena to get it.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by The_Finish:

I recently did a GL build and frankly 25mm GLs are just not worth it. They cost 10 AP less than the 40mm but they do a LOT less damage, they have less AoE and they also have worse special ammo. Incendiaries are OK but Stun grenades are poop, especially compared to Thermobaric/Cluster.

Two 25mms do more damage than one 40mm, so if you're shooting one hard target like a naga or something they're better. Just in case you want to use grenade launchers for single target. Except if it is something like a naga you're probably using adrenaline so you can fire two 40mms anyway.
Yeah 25mm kinda sucks.
Agreed that the MGL is really good, having a move penalty is annoying but it does really great damage. I found a 150 quality mangonel and the upgraded MGL was still doing more damage. Onager's better than mangonel so maybe 150 quality onager would beat it, but that's still really good for something that needs no mechanics.

[progad]

Originally posted by The_Finish:

The Thumper is very good but it's the least AP efficient out of all of them if you want to use it as your main weapon, since each shot is effectively 40 AP (25 shot + 15 reload) compared to the 35 of other 40mm grenade launchers.

Not certainly in that way. Thumper has 25 points per shot + 15 per reload, which can be halved by the belt. That is, it goes out to 33 with reload. The rest have 35 points per shot + reload. Even with the discount, the belt costs more.
It turns out that Thumper is more profitable on points than other 40 mm options. But the damage could make up the difference. That’s why I want to understand how much damage high-quality grenade launchers give. Unfortunately, I don't have any saves from the late game with open high-quality firearms dealers.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by progad:

It turns out that Thumper is more profitable on points than other 40 mm options. But the damage could make up the difference. That’s why I want to understand how much damage high-quality grenade launchers give. Unfortunately, I don't have any saves from the late game with open high-quality firearms dealers.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3088466819
M79 does 157.5 damage on average, while 130 quality onager does 155. So it's basically 130+ quality for the onager to become superior.
Though onager has naturally better crit damage and better crit chance/accuracy+no movement penalty thanks to its upgrades, so it's probably better even when it's doing a little less damage. Though how much damage is worth giving up in return for those depends on you.

[progad]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

M79 does 157.5 damage on average, while 130 quality onager does 155. So it's basically 130+ quality for the onager to become superior.

Thank you) It turns out that Thumper with a belt is by far the best option. The same 150 damage at 33 ap per shot with reload (if you use a belt).

[ptirodaktill]

Refubrished Thumper is an absolute beast against soft targets. 40mm Frags is all you need to end most encounters in 1 nade. Thermobaric offer a little bit of AoE but do noticeably lower dmg semi-usefull against robots, crabs and forge fight. Clusters nades suck, HE fail to deliver, its better to use thermobaric or not use anything at all if you think about HE. I don`t see any reason to use other GL , cause once refubrished Thumper does all the dmg you need at 25AP to fire cost.

[Radiosity]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

Refubrished Thumper is an absolute beast against soft targets. 40mm Frags is all you need to end most encounters in 1 nade. Thermobaric offer a little bit of AoE but do noticeably lower dmg semi-usefull against robots, crabs and forge fight. Clusters nades suck, HE fail to deliver, its better to use thermobaric or not use anything at all if you think about HE. I don`t see any reason to use other GL , cause once refubrished Thumper does all the dmg you need at 25AP to fire cost.

Countdown to Styg nerfing it in 3, 2, 1...

[Drokmon]

Originally posted by King Fossil:

Originally posted by progad:

It turns out that Thumper is more profitable on points than other 40 mm options. But the damage could make up the difference. That’s why I want to understand how much damage high-quality grenade launchers give. Unfortunately, I don't have any saves from the late game with open high-quality firearms dealers.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3088466819
M79 does 157.5 damage on average, while 130 quality onager does 155. So it's basically 130+ quality for the onager to become superior.
Though onager has naturally better crit damage and better crit chance/accuracy+no movement penalty thanks to its upgrades, so it's probably better even when it's doing a little less damage. Though how much damage is worth giving up in return for those depends on you.

Does the Gun Nut feat affect GL crafting? The wiki implies as much, which will probably put crafted GLs on top in nearly all regards.
That being said, the Thumper is undeniably useful for a large portion of the game due to when you find it and how quickly/cheaply you can get it refurbished.

[ptirodaktill]

GL are not firearms, at least protectorate lube don`t work on them. I guess the feat shouldn`t work either.

[King Fossil]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

GL are not firearms, at least protectorate lube don`t work on them. I guess the feat shouldn`t work either.

Feat works.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3090586065
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3090586042
Whether that's worth the 7 int is another question though (it's not).

[Tribal44]

but soft target are easy to deal with , with any semi-decent build,
so.... i doubt grenade launcher are effective against hard target+ there is like 1 feat for grenade launchers..., i don t even know if it s a damage one.

Perhaps thye should have merged grenade launcher and grenade trees,
put grenade out of "throwing" idk... throw stat and feats are pretty weird as it is...
make sense for knife but unfortunately it doesn't scale at all
nor with throwing knife damage, nor with grenade crits.

What's the crits damage % of grenade ? nobody knows ....

Some people claim it can be effective, i believe it, but i havn't tried,
and i doubt endgame can be done with only "throwing" knifes or grenades.

then that does link with the biology/chemistry rant... when as the game progress you need more raw/instant "DPS" .. and not DOTs .
Because there is no way to survive long enough for long DoTs to takes place,
except if you are using all the dirty tricks, but that s really punishing oneself for no reason at all.