How important is Concetrated Fire feat for an LMG/Minigun build?

[child mole Lester]

I am currently cooking Heavy Weapons build with Versatilty feat.

I notice some pros/cons of going this build. One of the cons is that I won't be able to grab perception-based feats. Among them Concetrated Fire seems especially strong and I fear that weapons of choice might be balanced around it.

Will a build like this struggle against tougher enemies on dominating?

Here is the build template: https://underrail.info/build/?HhAEAwoDAwcAUFAAwqAAAABLVgAAcHUyY1AAAABGAMKgb1BPCE0VH8OfY8OhwqMrRA7Ch8K24qGHBOKmuAPita4I37w

[Murmur]

Strongest feat for the weapons it applies to, you need it.

[Zeem]

Concentrated Fire is the single strongest feat you can have on your MG since it makes your damage scale exponentially with how many shots you fire in a single turn. You can easily shred a Naga on Dom in a single burst with it.

[Armagenesis]

I'm not an expert at this game, but to me that build looks pretty crap.

Main problem is that it isn't trying to focus on any particular build, and I'm not even talking about Versatility. If you want versatility, why not just focus on heavy gun skill while the other skills serve as backup only? I recently asked about MG build too, and the one build recommended to me also use versatility, but still focus on Heavy Gun skill.

Also, why do you need 18 strength if you don't invest in any melee feats?

This is what I planned to do: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgcLAwUAwqBLAAAAAChVZC0AfX0oc30AAABGbgBBKzkmCMOdFVXDn0rDoTsCMUvCh8KkwrVP4p-iBeK_hgXiv5sF37w

This is what was recommended to me: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgMLBQcAwqBJAAAAAFBRYQAAb18rS24AwqAAewAASCs5wqNhPyrDnko7Jk0Vw6ECwofCtcOdU-KntAriqJIF37w

[Murmur]

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

I'm not an expert at this game, but to me that build looks pretty crap.

Main problem is that it isn't trying to focus on any particular build, and I'm not even talking about Versatility. If you want versatility, why not just focus on heavy gun skill while the other skills serve as backup only? I recently asked about MG build too, and the one build recommended to me also use versatility, but still focus on Heavy Gun skill.

Also, why do you need 18 strength if you don't invest in any melee feats?

This is what I planned to do: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgcLAwUAwqBLAAAAAChVZC0AfX0oc30AAABGbgBBKzkmCMOdFVXDn0rDoTsCMUvCh8KkwrVP4p-iBeK_hgXiv5sF37w

This is what was recommended to me: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgMLBQcAwqBJAAAAAFBRYQAAb18rS24AwqAAewAASCs5wqNhPyrDnko7Jk0Vw6ECwofCtcOdU-KntAriqJIF37w

Brother you got trolled wtf is that last build, nearly made me vomit wtf.

[Armagenesis]

Messaggio originale di Murmur:

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

I'm not an expert at this game, but to me that build looks pretty crap.

Main problem is that it isn't trying to focus on any particular build, and I'm not even talking about Versatility. If you want versatility, why not just focus on heavy gun skill while the other skills serve as backup only? I recently asked about MG build too, and the one build recommended to me also use versatility, but still focus on Heavy Gun skill.

Also, why do you need 18 strength if you don't invest in any melee feats?

This is what I planned to do: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgcLAwUAwqBLAAAAAChVZC0AfX0oc30AAABGbgBBKzkmCMOdFVXDn0rDoTsCMUvCh8KkwrVP4p-iBeK_hgXiv5sF37w

This is what was recommended to me: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgMLBQcAwqBJAAAAAFBRYQAAb18rS24AwqAAewAASCs5wqNhPyrDnko7Jk0Vw6ECwofCtcOdU-KntAriqJIF37w

Brother you got trolled wtf is that last build, nearly made me vomit wtf.

I'm not saying I particularly agree with that build, I'm just saying that the use of Versatility makes sense since it's used to cover early game where getting ammo for MG is still difficult.

I don't particularly like the high PK and TM skill myself. And if I ever copy the build, I'll just level them up enough to get necessary psi abilities. Since the OP of that build seems to use them for utilities only too with electrokinesis, grounding, and imprint.

[destroyor]

Messaggio originale di Murmur:

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

...
This is what was recommended to me: https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgMLBQcAwqBJAAAAAFBRYQAAb18rS24AwqAAewAASCs5wqNhPyrDnko7Jk0Vw6ECwofCtcOdU-KntAriqJIF37w

Brother you got trolled wtf is that last build, nearly made me vomit wtf.

lol apparently I trolled hard here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/4694532371788177888/#c4694532371788210866

out of curiosity what's wrong w/ my build?

[Murmur]

Messaggio originale di destroyor:

Messaggio originale di Murmur:

Brother you got trolled wtf is that last build, nearly made me vomit wtf.

lol apparently I trolled hard here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/4694532371788177888/#c4694532371788210866

out of curiosity what's wrong w/ my build?

7 int for disassemble and gun-nut is pretty bad, those feats just kinda suck.

Sure step is really unnecessary

Suppressive and opportunist should be way earlier but you have all these wierd feats here instead like early tranq and premed.

Full auto also should be earlier, ambush aswell and brute aim.

160pk for what exactly?, chains doesnt scale and surely you arent using ek imprint for anything other than stuns, id rather have 35 MT for cryostasis.

Lockpicking despite being a flavour choice is not fantastic on 3 dex, just take 45 or so for vents. Rather have pickpocketing.

[destroyor]

Messaggio originale di Murmur:

Messaggio originale di destroyor:

lol apparently I trolled hard here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/0/4694532371788177888/#c4694532371788210866

out of curiosity what's wrong w/ my build?

7 int for disassemble and gun-nut is pretty bad, those feats just kinda suck.

Sure step is really unnecessary

Suppressive and opportunist should be way earlier but you have all these wierd feats here instead like early tranq and premed.

Full auto also should be earlier, ambush aswell and brute aim.

160pk for what exactly?, chains doesnt scale and surely you arent using ek imprint for anything other than stuns, id rather have 35 MT for cryostasis.

Lockpicking despite being a flavour choice is not fantastic on 3 dex, just take 45 or so for vents. Rather have pickpocketing.

High quality minigun frames are very rare - even with special mercantile tiers unlock only Fraser (Fort Apogee), and Hanna (Institute of Tchort) would realistic offer you a chance of buying a high quality frame. Even Constantine from Oculus don't really sell them. With Disassemble you can use any high quality frame you find ASAP instead of saving them. Without disassemble good luck crafting a minigun that is great for majority of the game - you'll probably end up settling w/ something that's just good enough instead.

Gun-nut suck in general because it only increase the gun max damage by 15%, not overall damage. However this feat is great for burst weapons because with large amount of bullets being fire your overall BASE damage are increased by roughly 7.5%, which translated to a pretty significant damage increase after all other damage buff like heavy gun skill damage mod + concentrated fire, etc. Gun-nut doesn't suck for minigun.

Minigun early game is rough - sure steps + early tranq + premed = much easier early game. I will concede this is optional.

You would take suppressive fire before level 4? I play on dominating and it's just not financially viable to burst in early game. What's the point of taking it super early when you are not going to burst? At what level would you start burst your AR/minigun? For me that's usually when you arrived at core city - so full time burst at starting around level 14 or so.

Upon reflection yes ambush should be earlier; suppressive fire is there for the slow to bunch up enemies so stay at level 4; opportunist should be taken late as that 15% extra damage buff should come after other more important feats so should be taken at around level 20 ~ 24.

Brute aim early - no. When you are low level your skills are low and 3 extra PER give very low skill buff early.

Full auto let you fire 2 (two) extra bullets, damage wise this is irrelevant for minigun once you are winded up. Even when cold start (no wind up) that two extra bullets isn't going to make and break any fight. I guess mag dump should be taken at level 14 so that makes Full auto at level 12.

160pk means premed + electrokinesis hurts, tele punch + proxy hurts; telekinetic proxy movement effective in finishing off enemies. Again I will concede this is optional but it sure isn't useless.

pickpocketing is pretty bad for 3 DEX too - I rather have high lockpick but guess this is down to personal choice.

https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgMLBQcAwqBJAAAAAFBRYQAAb18rS24AwqAAewAASCs5YT87KgJKFcOhTcKHw57DnSbCtVPCheKntAriqJIF37w

[Murmur]

Messaggio originale di destroyor:

Messaggio originale di Murmur:

7 int for disassemble and gun-nut is pretty bad, those feats just kinda suck.

Sure step is really unnecessary

Suppressive and opportunist should be way earlier but you have all these wierd feats here instead like early tranq and premed.

Full auto also should be earlier, ambush aswell and brute aim.

160pk for what exactly?, chains doesnt scale and surely you arent using ek imprint for anything other than stuns, id rather have 35 MT for cryostasis.

Lockpicking despite being a flavour choice is not fantastic on 3 dex, just take 45 or so for vents. Rather have pickpocketing.

High quality minigun frames are very rare - even with special mercantile tiers unlock only Fraser (Fort Apogee), and Hanna (Institute of Tchort) would realistic offer you a chance of buying a high quality frame. Even Constantine from Oculus don't really sell them. With Disassemble you can use any high quality frame you find ASAP instead of saving them. Without disassemble good luck crafting a minigun that is great for majority of the game - you'll probably end up settling w/ something that's just good enough instead.

Gun-nut suck in general because it only increase the gun max damage by 15%, not overall damage. However this feat is great for burst weapons because with large amount of bullets being fire your overall BASE damage are increased by roughly 7.5%, which translated to a pretty significant damage increase after all other damage buff like heavy gun skill damage mod + concentrated fire, etc. Gun-nut doesn't suck for minigun.

Minigun early game is rough - sure steps + early tranq + premed = much easier early game. I will concede this is optional.

You would take suppressive fire before level 4? I play on dominating and it's just not financially viable to burst in early game. What's the point of taking it super early when you are not going to burst? At what level would you start burst your AR/minigun? For me that's usually when you arrived at core city - so full time burst at starting around level 14 or so.

Upon reflection yes ambush should be earlier; suppressive fire is there for the slow to bunch up enemies so stay at level 4; opportunist should be taken late as that 15% extra damage buff should come after other more important feats so should be taken at around level 20 ~ 24.

Brute aim early - no. When you are low level your skills are low and 3 extra PER give very low skill buff early.

Full auto let you fire 2 (two) extra bullets, damage wise this is irrelevant for minigun once you are winded up. Even when cold start (no wind up) that two extra bullets isn't going to make and break any fight. I guess mag dump should be taken at level 14 so that makes Full auto at level 12.

160pk means premed + electrokinesis hurts, tele punch + proxy hurts; telekinetic proxy movement effective in finishing off enemies. Again I will concede this is optional but it sure isn't useless.

pickpocketing is pretty bad for 3 DEX too - I rather have high lockpick but guess this is down to personal choice.

https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgMLBQcAwqBJAAAAAFBRYQAAb18rS24AwqAAewAASCs5YT87KgJKFcOhTcKHw57DnSbCtVPCheKntAriqJIF37w

Im using smg early and bursting lots with that, dom economy is not brutal enough that you need to conserve your bursts lol. Maybe its because you are taking lockpicking instead of pickpocketing :) .

I guess disassemble and gun nut are ultimately down to pref but im the type of guy taking 3 int on ironman runs because i really devalue int. However on minigun you have no choice because of the 111% mech req or whatever it is.

Not sure how i feel about the vers idea but its pretty interesting. But if we have no shame and are using tm anyways then you might aswell just grab early gun skill and abuse the thumper.

[King Fossil]

Messaggio originale di child mole Lester:

Here is the build template: https://underrail.info/build/?HhAEAwoDAwcAUFAAwqAAAABLVgAAcHUyY1AAAABGAMKgb1BPCE0VH8OfY8OhwqMrRA7Ch8K24qGHBOKmuAPita4I37w

I don't see any melee feats here so it seems like you're not really set on it. So you could take 7 points from strength and put them in perception instead. With brute aim that's 13 effective perception, so you have slightly higher effective heavy guns than the versatility build, and you qualify for perception feats+have loads of free spec points+have good detection.
If you do want offhand sledgehammer for ammo conservation or whatever then that's harder though.

[Serendipitous]

Messaggio originale di destroyor:

You would take suppressive fire before level 4? I play on dominating and it's just not financially viable to burst in early game. What's the point of taking it super early when you are not going to burst?

Well, more often than not your feat choices for 6-12 level are incredibly overcrowded, taking good feats at level 1 and 2 where you have much less actual choices outside of QoL is a good way to bring your build earlier.

[child mole Lester]

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

Main problem is that it isn't trying to focus on any particular build, and I'm not even talking about Versatility. If you want versatility, why not just focus on heavy gun skill while the other skills serve as backup only? I recently asked about MG build too, and the one build recommended to me also use versatility, but still focus on Heavy Gun skill.

The idea that I have is that STR boosts are a lot easier to come across compared to the perception increases, which leads to 350+ skill in heavy guns without taking away high CON and INT to invest in PER. Also, build like this is "immune" to PER decreases like shaded visors or mushroom brew.

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

Also, why do you need 18 strength if you don't invest in any melee feats?

I am probably going to in the end if do end up running this build, not taking Heavyweight would be a crime.

PROBABLY should have mentioned it in the post, but I want to roll with full tungsten/industrial exoskeleton to abuse Heavy Metal feat for damage and DR stacking with Conditioning and Mbrew.

[destroyor]

Messaggio originale di child mole Lester:

I want to roll with full tungsten/industrial exoskeleton to abuse Heavy Metal feat for damage and DR stacking with Conditioning and Mbrew.

Mushroom brew reduce psi regeneration by 30 = constant drain on psi and psi reserve for the full 20 min. You might as well cosplay as a psiless turret by dropping psi empathy.

[child mole Lester]

Messaggio originale di destroyor:

Messaggio originale di child mole Lester:

I want to roll with full tungsten/industrial exoskeleton to abuse Heavy Metal feat for damage and DR stacking with Conditioning and Mbrew.

Mushroom brew reduce psi regeneration by 30 = constant drain on psi and psi reserve for the full 20 min. You might as well cosplay as a psiless turret by dropping psi empathy.

I did not know negative psi regen actually DRAINS it. My bad, should test stuff before building around it

[Armagenesis]

Messaggio originale di child mole Lester:

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

Main problem is that it isn't trying to focus on any particular build, and I'm not even talking about Versatility. If you want versatility, why not just focus on heavy gun skill while the other skills serve as backup only? I recently asked about MG build too, and the one build recommended to me also use versatility, but still focus on Heavy Gun skill.

The idea that I have is that STR boosts are a lot easier to come across compared to the perception increases, which leads to 350+ skill in heavy guns without taking away high CON and INT to invest in PER. Also, build like this is "immune" to PER decreases like shaded visors or mushroom brew.

Messaggio originale di Armagenesis:

Also, why do you need 18 strength if you don't invest in any melee feats?

I am probably going to in the end if do end up running this build, not taking Heavyweight would be a crime.

PROBABLY should have mentioned it in the post, but I want to roll with full tungsten/industrial exoskeleton to abuse Heavy Metal feat for damage and DR stacking with Conditioning and Mbrew.

If you want to focus on STR, I'd say that taking heavy gun as a secondary is a bad idea. With that base stats and skill distribution, your MG is probably going to do a very ♥♥♥♥ damage. Especially on late game where enemies have over 10 DT. Your bullets will probably bounce off most of them.

Heavyweight is probably also going to be a waste of feat if you don't have anything to boost crit.

I tried making something. It still looks awkward as hell, but I feel like this works way better than going with Versatility:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgsDBgcKAwYAwqBaAMKgAAAATWMAAHNzI2tkAAAARgBLTSsILQ0SRBXDnUrDocOfVVDDoMKHwrXCpE_in4QB4qOTBeKntAnfvA

The idea is to have sledgehammer as backup weapon and still be able to dish out decent damage. On top of that, Pummel and Expose Weakness might give a small amount of benefit to your heavy gun as well should you be forced to go on a melee range combat. Then there's Dirty Kick to serve as additional CC. If you have to deal with multiple enemies close range, you can probably taze one and kick the other for easier time.

You can dump lockpicking and hacking for more intimidation and some other skills too.

I just realized I forgot to take Sprint. Expertise is pretty much a feat dump, so Sprint can replace that. Since you likely want to make a tin can build, Sprint is pretty much a lifesaver.